Audeze Mobius Review / Preview - Head-Fi TV

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Aug 5, 2018 at 3:01 PM Post #4,201 of 7,676

sxr71

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You're missing the whole point. Head tracking and HRTF is already part of VR and Mobius is not needed. Head tracking here is to enhance the HRTF to further help fool your brain that you're listening to a real stationary 2.1/5.1/7.1 speaker setup.



Surely you would know this already as you've been following Waves NX for more than a year now? It doesn't decode HRTF.


Yes you are right. Head tracking is built into steam VR as is HRTF.

As for the Möbius I’d have to test head tracking to see how that works. All current two channel and multi channel systems that are not Ambisonics based are predicated on the user sitting still with ideally positioned speakers and head frozen in the ideal position. Turning my head while Iistening to any of these systems only snaps you out of the sweet spot.

Yes you are right it generates HRTF. Got mixed up with it and Ambisonics in the semantics. Now the system is also capable of converting (decoding?) B format to binaural is it not?

So basically head tracking might only be useful when playing back 3rd order Ambisonics as I understand it. Correct me if I am wrong. So games need to output into 3rd order Ambisonics to use this.

Yes I have been following since last year but I been out of touch since I figured the technology isn’t really there yet. I know it’s 70s tech but the modern digital implementations are all over the place. There isn’t any easy or clear integration as far as I have looked.

As far as I understand I could use software to convert 5.1 or 7.1 to B format and use this. Or I could just take the easy way out and use the Dolby headphone app until all the major players fight it out. Super X-Fi might be the one. Who knows? Correct me if any of my understanding is wrong. That’s why I come here - to learn.
 
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Aug 5, 2018 at 3:29 PM Post #4,203 of 7,676

sxr71

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The Mobius will appear in Windows Sound panel as a 7.1 audio device.

Anything that outputs 5.1 or 7.1 (games/movies etc) will be virtualised by Mobius.

If you want to try different HRTF algorithms (without the head tracking) try this: https://sourceforge.net/projects/hesuvi/

Ok that is great. So basically as long you have a USB connection you can watch movies in their surround formats. I suppose it comes back to the problem that you need a full on PC Blu Ray setup. Which I guess means getting a 4K blu ray drive and Power DVD (anyone who’s done this before might have memories of how that goes - it’s not a lot of fun). Alternatively streaming Netflix or ITunes on PC.

But how would this work for someone who uses a Roku or an Apple TV? I suppose we’re back to being dependent on a PC as early adopters. In that case if you don’t need head tracking, then why not just do it with a $10 software program on PC?

It seems ecosystem is not quite there yet. Or am I wrong?

Edit: I just realized that since there is a PC app to set up the HRTF iOS and Android should be possible in time. Also since it’s all based on Cipher EQ and other Cipher features should eventually be controllable via iOS and Android.
 
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Aug 5, 2018 at 4:14 PM Post #4,204 of 7,676

Kazekeil

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You seem to be arguing why someone who wants none of the features of mobius would want to buy mobius.

I got the mobius because I want latency free headtracking. I got it because I want 2 channel virtualization, even in bluetooth. I got it because I want a great mic. I got it because I want to play a game in 7.1 with excellent positional cues that I can also mix in music from my phone via bluetooth. I got it because it was primarily marketed to PC gamers and that is the intended "ecosystem". I got it because it combines all this functionality into a portable unit, amp and all, with a great battery. And I got it all because it was an Audeze full size planar can + amp + mic + virtualization software + bluetooth + headtracker melted into one single $200 purchase.

Every other post you seem to make is about how you don't care about(or don't understand) features of the mobius then asking why you should get the mobius. After reading everything you've posted. My recommendation is you don't even consider them, you're not the target market. Go get your $10 app and wait for the Smyth Realizer or something similar. I don't know what else you want from this forum/stream of conversation. This is not the product you're looking for.
 
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Aug 5, 2018 at 4:14 PM Post #4,205 of 7,676

RamSpencer

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So... are we still stuck with permanent sidetone, or not?
Likely to be assessed in a future update. As long as it is easy to address with firmware, that definitely seems like something everyone would agree should be optional.

As for now, no one is actually "stuck" with it. A lot of people prefer using a separate High quality microphones. Often a large diaphragm condenser mic.
 
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Aug 5, 2018 at 4:20 PM Post #4,206 of 7,676

VSENSES

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Ok that is great. So basically as long you have a USB connection you can watch movies in their surround formats. I suppose it comes back to the problem that you need a full on PC Blu Ray setup. Which I guess means getting a 4K blu ray drive and Power DVD (anyone who’s done this before might have memories of how that goes - it’s not a lot of fun). Alternatively streaming Netflix or ITunes on PC.

But how would this work for someone who uses a Roku or an Apple TV? I suppose we’re back to being dependent on a PC as early adopters. In that case if you don’t need head tracking, then why not just do it with a $10 software program on PC?

It seems ecosystem is not quite there yet. Or am I wrong?

Edit: I just realized that since there is a PC app to set up the HRTF iOS and Android should be possible in time. Also since it’s all based on Cipher EQ and other Cipher features should eventually be controllable via iOS and Android.

Okay to make this abundantly clear for you, this is PC GAMING HEADSET first and foremost. This isn't designed for the purpose of putting into your home theater system. It's designed for people who has their PC as the center of their home entertainment.
 
Aug 5, 2018 at 4:22 PM Post #4,207 of 7,676

kenshinesca

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I think we are lucky that Audeze was willing to fix that hiss issue. Hell they could have just said that was the risk we took in supporting their crowdfunding campaign and then just fixed the issue for the retail units. So kudos to Audeze for doing the right thing.
 
Aug 5, 2018 at 4:27 PM Post #4,208 of 7,676

sxr71

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Okay to make this abundantly clear for you, this is PC GAMING HEADSET first and foremost. This isn't designed for the purpose of putting into your home theater system. It's designed for people who has their PC as the center of their home entertainment.


Ok I get it now. I used to be that guy with Windows home server and Windows Media Center. Still debating getting the Pioneer UHD BD drive and Powerdvd 17 ultra.

Also going to check the Smyth realizer.

As I understand it now. The key feature is latency free head tracking. That and the fact that this is a one box solution. No additional software needed.
 
Aug 5, 2018 at 4:29 PM Post #4,209 of 7,676

heavyharmonies

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That’s why I come here - to learn.

Au contraire. Why you come here is to lecture everyone using a condescending attitude for daring to want to own headphones with attributes that you don't personally desire, assuming the rest of us all need to justify our purchase decisions in light of your towering intellect.

To misquote Carly Simon, "You're so vain, you probably think this thread is about you..."
 
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Aug 5, 2018 at 4:31 PM Post #4,210 of 7,676

craftyhack

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Likely to be assessed in a future update. As for now, no one is actually "stuck" with it. A lot of people prefer using a separate High quality microphone. Usually a condenser mic.
Ewww, no, condenser mics are too sensitive for gaming and/or streaming if you get serious about it and want to get a true broadcasting mic. While they do sound fantastic... even with cardioid polar patterns, they are too sensitive to ambient noise (keyboard, chair squeaks, A/C, etc.). If you check out most career streamers (and many pod casters, broadcasters, etc.) they all use quality dynamic mics. Examples include (but are not limited to) the Shure SM7B (pretty much the career streamer industry standard), the Electro-Voice RE20 or RE320, or the Heil PR40 (more common for podcasting or broadcasting, not so much for streaming). Their ambient noise rejection (and to a degree sound shaping capabilities given good mic technique) is on another level.

Condenser mics are more common for recording in sound controlled environments given their approach is unbeatable for capturing detail (excepting maybe Audeze's mics, dunno, never seen one of those IRL :D), and while they have been made popular for streaming by a few companies with marketing chops (Blue, AT, etc.), once you switch to dynamic you understand why they have been the industry standard for live mic'ing for so long (the EV RE20 type model for something ridiculous like 50+ years, starting with radio).

Also, dynamics don't require phantom power which is nice, but they do need hella gain(cloud lifter is a way to get that without getting complicated), so I guess that evens out. The SM7B should be in the pro-streamer starter pack lol.

Side note, Thriller was recorded primarily with the SM7B, so I guess it is used in recording studios too? Not sure why they went with that for vocals over condenser, but whatever, Thriller on DSD sounds pretty damn good.
 
Aug 5, 2018 at 4:35 PM Post #4,211 of 7,676

RamSpencer

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Ewww, no, condenser mics are too sensitive for gaming and/or streaming if you get serious about it and want to get a true broadcasting mic. While they do sound fantastic... even with cardioid polar patterns, they are too sensitive to ambient noise (keyboard, chair squeaks, A/C, etc.). If you check out most career streamers (and many pod casters, broadcasters, etc.) they all use quality dynamic mics. Examples include (but are not limited to) the Shure SM7B (pretty much the career streamer industry standard), the Electro-Voice RE20 or RE320, or the Heil PR40 (more common for podcasting or broadcasting, not so much for streaming). Their ambient noise rejection (and to a degree sound shaping capabilities given good mic technique) is on another level.

Condenser mics are more common for recording in sound controlled environments given their approach is unbeatable for capturing detail (excepting maybe Audeze's mics, dunno, never seen one of those IRL :D), and while they have been made popular for streaming by a few companies with marketing chops (Blue, AT, etc.), once you switch to dynamic you understand why they have been the industry standard for live mic'ing for so long (the EV RE20 type model for something ridiculous like 50+ years, starting with radio).

Also, dynamics don't require phantom power which is nice, but they do need hella gain(cloud lifter is a way to get that without getting complicated), so I guess that evens out. The SM7B should be in the pro-streamer starter pack lol.

Side note, Thriller was recorded primarily with the SM7B, so I guess it is used in recording studios too? Not sure why they went with that for vocals over condenser, but whatever, Thriller on DSD sounds pretty damn good.
Okay fair enough. They work really well for podcasts.
 
Aug 5, 2018 at 4:49 PM Post #4,212 of 7,676

sxr71

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Au contraire. Why you come here is to lecture everyone using a condescending attitude for daring to want to own headphones with attributes that you don't personally desire, assuming the rest of us all need to justify our purchase decisions in light of your towering intellect.

To misquote Carly Simon, "You're so vain, you probably think this thread is about you..."


Au contraire. The product description didn’t really go into detail how exactly it works. My frustration was related to how little space was used to describe what it actually does and how most of it was devoted to typical audiophile marketing. It took this many posts to finally figure out what its unique selling point is. Well the two of them:

Latency free head tracking.

One box solution with new software.

I came here after seeing an Ad for it. And I learned nothing from the website.

It doesn’t really tell you if it’s using the full Waves NX. It doesn’t tell you if HRTF is done onboard or in software.

It doesn’t tell you that multichannel requires a cable.

The one person who said that it shows up in Windows as a 7.1 device cleared up a lot.

It doesn’t tell you that multichannel doesn’t work with consoles (even though I am exclusively a pc gamer).

Now that someone cleared up that it for PC gamers playing games I get it now.

Maybe a chart that shows what it does and doesn’t do would be pertinent and I wouldn’t have to come here to figure out what the innovation here is.

Top row: PC, PS4, Xbox, Apple TV, Roku.
Left column: Stereo HRTF, Multichannel HRTF.
Data: USB or wireless, both or not supported.

It upsets me that to figure that out I have to read through so much marketing hype. “Sounds like i’m in a room with speakers” “most amazing thing I’ve heard out of headphones” “blah blah blah”

I didn’t learn anything real about it and how exactly it works. There is hint that it uses Waves NX because the creator’s edition comes with those plug ins.

After coming here only a few pertinent posts made it clear what exactly this product is. Everyone is right. It isn’t for me.

I apologize. The thick marketing hype does cause me to write in not the most neutral way. Just say it is a planar magnetic with Waves NX HRTF and zero latency head tracking built in and put that chart up. I wouldn’t have even had to waste a day over here.

Even from the perspective of a PC gamer I have to wonder if it can or will in the future directly interface with Unity or Unreal assuming head tracking is disabled. I guess it isn’t important. Basically I wanted to know if this is the one box Ambisonics experimentation toy. Or if it could be molded to that purpose.

In the end coming here was worth it because:

I might get an answer on that Cipher V2 cable.

I learned about Super X-fi.

I learned about the smyth realizer.
 
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Aug 5, 2018 at 5:09 PM Post #4,213 of 7,676

VSENSES

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Aug 5, 2018 at 5:12 PM Post #4,214 of 7,676

Dobrescu George

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