Audeze Mobius review / impressions
Nov 2, 2018 at 11:00 AM Post #2,041 of 5,780
Ok, I'll bite. What is a USB "decrappyfier". The DAC for the headphones is in the unit themselves, the is cable has no analog signal. There shouldn't be anything you can do to condition the line that would make any difference.
 
Nov 2, 2018 at 11:26 AM Post #2,042 of 5,780
The USB cable has 4 wires: two data and 2 power. There is no galvanic isolation so noise can enter the PS in the Mobius through the power pair. There is nothing noisier than a PC (except for big SMPS's). The "decrappyfiers" work either passively, by filtering, or actively, by taking the data, buffer it and resend it while galvanically isolating the power supply (usually using a power supply of their own to substitute the one provided by the computer)

I promise I will not pollute the thread anymore with this discussion, since it won't change anyone's ideas and deviates from the subject. Alas, It takes all of 50 USD to check it for oneself and put it to rest forever. BTW, I am Msc in EE, so I know the theory.
 
Nov 2, 2018 at 12:14 PM Post #2,043 of 5,780
Ok, I'll bite. What is a USB "decrappyfier". The DAC for the headphones is in the unit themselves, the is cable has no analog signal. There shouldn't be anything you can do to condition the line that would make any difference.

Jitter, increased phy noise generated by error correction in the usb chip, noisier voltage regulators, leakage currents. These are all measurable and treatable and make a large difference to the quality of the digital signal. If bits are bits then we'd all have a merry christmas.
 
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Nov 2, 2018 at 12:47 PM Post #2,044 of 5,780
So I'm thinking of trying something. With bluetooth 5.0 you can connect to and stream audio to multiple devices at the same time, correct? I've got an S7Edge which I don't think has 5.0, so I'd have to get a new phone, but using something like this ( https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078H4YD2L/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_Nu92BbYTDVGTN ), I could hook up a bass shaker to a chair, would just need a crossover and amp or anamp with a sub out built in.

Any suggestions? The mobius is 5.0 right? The bluetooth receiver would also need to be 5.0? And the connection would need to be ldac...
The easiest way to do this is to use the multi-device in a mac. Instead of the second Mobius, you can use a Subpac or similar.
https://audeze.zendesk.com/hc/en-us...tiple-Mobius-headphones-via-one-computer-Mac-
 
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Nov 2, 2018 at 1:14 PM Post #2,045 of 5,780
Following the recommendations of someone in the forum, I put a "USB-decrappyfier" in front of the cable connecting the Mobius with the Mac - A Audioquest Jitterbug that I used to use with the Meridian Explorer II.
It is a must - the effect is enormous, and it really changes the level of the machine. Other better devices (Schiit, etc.) may yield better results, but my aim always was portability (and cost). The main effect is on clarity and treble quality. Also impact and dynamics seem to improve.

Was mobius in high-res when you did that? Have you tried listening with/without the jitterbug but not knowing if it was there? I put a ton of time into researching these things after that post you referenced was posted, and the main takeaway I found was that there was no effect on the signal coming from the DAC with the addition of a USB 'decrappifier' - anything the decrappifier can do, the DAC can do (and *should* do) - with the exception of really bad quality DACs. This seems to be corroborated by some DAC manufacturers saying that those devices are not needed with their DAC (but take with a grain of salt because PR reasons). The only reviews I could find that were positive of the decrappifiers were those that tended to have reviews that were more positive the more expensive something was. That's not to say there were shilling - I mean from a "if it's expensive it must be good" sort of perspective, so they listen more critically than before and thus hear more details and think it's because of the decrappifier. Any review I saw where it was double-blind (they didn't know if what they were listening to was with the device or not), couldn't find a difference.

THAT SAID: I only found results for "full-fledged" DACs and not for DACs inside a headphone, like mobius. It's possible that to save money, weight, space, dev time, etc, the mobius doesn't do any of that and thus would benefit from a decrappifier. That's why I was asking if you had tried it double-blind, so to speak.
 
Nov 2, 2018 at 1:22 PM Post #2,046 of 5,780
The easiest way to do this is to use the multi-device in a mac. Instead of the second Mobius, you can use a Subpac or similar.
https://audeze.zendesk.com/hc/en-us...tiple-Mobius-headphones-via-one-computer-Mac-

On a mac would LDAC be possible? I like the idea of just using the Mobius and my phone, instead of having to buy a laptop and set it somewhere xD I'm not sure what you meant be a second Mobius, I would only use the one, and the second device would be something like this I think ( https://www.amazon.com/Ampio-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier-Bluetooth/dp/B07CYTT8S7 ) to a crossover to an amplifier or to a an amplifier with a built in sub out. I thought about a sub pac but I really like the way tactile transducers work mounted directly to a chairs frame, you feel it everywhere. And I'd like to maintain the LDAC connection to the Mobius so the virtualizations getting that sweet sweet lossless data.
 
Nov 2, 2018 at 1:54 PM Post #2,047 of 5,780
Was mobius in high-res when you did that? Have you tried listening with/without the jitterbug but not knowing if it was there? I put a ton of time into researching these things after that post you referenced was posted, and the main takeaway I found was that there was no effect on the signal coming from the DAC with the addition of a USB 'decrappifier' - anything the decrappifier can do, the DAC can do (and *should* do) - with the exception of really bad quality DACs. This seems to be corroborated by some DAC manufacturers saying that those devices are not needed with their DAC (but take with a grain of salt because PR reasons). The only reviews I could find that were positive of the decrappifiers were those that tended to have reviews that were more positive the more expensive something was. That's not to say there were shilling - I mean from a "if it's expensive it must be good" sort of perspective, so they listen more critically than before and thus hear more details and think it's because of the decrappifier. Any review I saw where it was double-blind (they didn't know if what they were listening to was with the device or not), couldn't find a difference.

THAT SAID: I only found results for "full-fledged" DACs and not for DACs inside a headphone, like mobius. It's possible that to save money, weight, space, dev time, etc, the mobius doesn't do any of that and thus would benefit from a decrappifier. That's why I was asking if you had tried it double-blind, so to speak.

A lot of high end equipment have only recently upgraded their USB interfaces, take Schitt's Gen 5 USB for example. The addition of galvanic isolation, a separate power supply, low voltage regulators, and clocks. And most high end sources now use a clocked hub chip for their USB out. A personal computer doesn't have any of this and neither do $100 budget DACs. The Mobius would be right out in this sense because it's a headphone, there's no room for more circuit boards.

I could see you coming to that conclusion when you went into your research with a bias, and if you did your research on reddit or ASR. But the effects of digital conditioning on imaging and soundstage are not subtle. I did my testing with a wide array of digital transorts and all my listening tests were done using virtualization, where differences in imaging and soundstage and tonal balance were more easily discernable.

@divasson tried a device and found the improvement to be beneficial. I could understand you looking out for the financials of your fellow consumer, but most of these devices can be bought with a 30 day return period.
 
Nov 2, 2018 at 4:56 PM Post #2,048 of 5,780
Following the recommendations of someone in the forum, I put a "USB-decrappyfier" in front of the cable connecting the Mobius with the Mac - A Audioquest Jitterbug that I used to use with the Meridian Explorer II.
It is a must - the effect is enormous, and it really changes the level of the machine. Other better devices (Schiit, etc.) may yield better results, but my aim always was portability (and cost).

The main effect is on clarity and treble quality. Also impact and dynamics seem to improve. (I know that bits are bits but noise on the power cable is noise on the power cable, and these machines are not galvanically isolated)
I brought up the AudioQuest Jitterbug. Forgive me. I have been using one with my Chord Mojo and iPhone with the camera connection kit CCK. I thought I would try it with the CCK and the Mobius. Divasson’s description mirrors my own experience. I find the Jitterbug useful. There is a USB de-crapifier called the Regen that many rave about. I have one on the shelf. For my system the Regen was a bust. A Grail device for others. But the USB 2.0 Isolator by Intona! Ah! It has a permanent spot on my big rig. If you have one of these things, try it with the Mobius. You may get lucky.
 
Nov 2, 2018 at 6:35 PM Post #2,050 of 5,780
Do i need to install the netflix windows app to get surround? Or does netflix on browser support surround on mobius?

Yes use the app
 
Nov 2, 2018 at 7:38 PM Post #2,053 of 5,780
Following the recommendations of someone in the forum, I put a "USB-decrappyfier" in front of the cable connecting the Mobius with the Mac - A Audioquest Jitterbug that I used to use with the Meridian Explorer II.
It is a must - the effect is enormous, and it really changes the level of the machine. Other better devices (Schiit, etc.) may yield better results, but my aim always was portability (and cost).

The main effect is on clarity and treble quality. Also impact and dynamics seem to improve. (I know that bits are bits but noise on the power cable is noise on the power cable, and these machines are not galvanically isolated)


I use 2 IFI Silincer3.0 on my Mac when running anything to be honest but I must ask if you are connected to the power source of the MacBook Air , I know that when using my pro and connected to the power cable the silincers are a must but not so much when on battery.
 
Nov 2, 2018 at 8:15 PM Post #2,054 of 5,780
Was mobius in high-res when you did that? Have you tried listening with/without the jitterbug but not knowing if it was there? I put a ton of time into researching these things after that post you referenced was posted, and the main takeaway I found was that there was no effect on the signal coming from the DAC with the addition of a USB 'decrappifier' - anything the decrappifier can do, the DAC can do (and *should* do) - with the exception of really bad quality DACs. This seems to be corroborated by some DAC manufacturers saying that those devices are not needed with their DAC (but take with a grain of salt because PR reasons). The only reviews I could find that were positive of the decrappifiers were those that tended to have reviews that were more positive the more expensive something was. That's not to say there were shilling - I mean from a "if it's expensive it must be good" sort of perspective, so they listen more critically than before and thus hear more details and think it's because of the decrappifier. Any review I saw where it was double-blind (they didn't know if what they were listening to was with the device or not), couldn't find a difference.

THAT SAID: I only found results for "full-fledged" DACs and not for DACs inside a headphone, like mobius. It's possible that to save money, weight, space, dev time, etc, the mobius doesn't do any of that and thus would benefit from a decrappifier. That's why I was asking if you had tried it double-blind, so to speak.

On this I would like to agree to disagree. If this was the case there would not be a market for power conditioners, even though yes the amps themselves should be able to remove whatever noise from the line even if you had an apartment building where there was one main line and then every single line in the apartment building branches off of that line in the same manner as if you wanted to run a light bulb from the ceiling when there was no line to the breaker and you needed to branch off, sadly the top floor guy, no matter what amp he has is not going to be of any use for solid listening because of the line.

With that being said yes there is a use for usb filters in the same way you look at power conditioners, which yes are measurable, so while I would not say there is a night and day difference in all cases there really is a benefit for some cases. For example apple is very greedy, as you should be able to tell from the IPhone scheme in that you can not have your own memory in the phone ,it is the same with MacBooks and the power supply, there are no other options so many MacBook users need to buy a new power cable every 5-12 months because apple does a terrible job in producing a quality power cable. So having said that imagine that most if not many apple power cables being used are terrible and after about 6 months max they lose every quality of a power cable as we know it just from everyday wear and tear, this includes shielding.
 
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