[rutter]

Got the Gumby finally and have been warming it up for five hours (which needs to be five days per the designer).



Quite good/expensive DACs/amps are perhaps a must (put down the Chord Mojo). Without them (and Sonarworks or EQ too, which has the greatest bang for the buck) >=$1k headphones can sound like a clear waste of money. The floor might be >=$500 if the Asgard 2 is good.

The HD800S doesn't sound bass-light although I need to do more listening. Instead it sounded hollow to me for some reason. Not artificial, but perhaps distant? It turns out the "intimate presentation" phrase might not be a euphemism for "your headphones or equipment have a crappy soundstage" (at least not in all cases). I've seen people write how with something they might feel like they're sitting in the first row or are on-stage whereas with something else they are in the back of the room or in a crowd watching a performance. Which is better may be a matter of preference. Anyway, I think I might be catching a glimpse of that. With the LCD-X I feel like I might be next to the guy who speaks in that song and on-stage where the sound is generated. Or I might be in a club crowd that is actually immersed in the sound- it's immediate and close. Nonetheless, like someone else here claimed, the separation is actually good. In that song I didn't think the 800S had a major advantage in separation. It more so struck me as hollow, but the bass was quite fine. I preferred the LCD-X. Weirdly I'm still not hearing the relative expanse the 800S is supposed to have that separates it from other headphones. The difference so far with the Gumby isn't the 800S having a huge soundstage in comparison to the LCD-X, it's that it somehow sounds less immediate. This is strange. Maybe it's a weird first impression.

At the moment I'm a phone call away from returning the 800S, which also has the advantage of a balanced cable currently. Will obviously be listening more in the coming days, especially with the Gumby needing those five full days.

 

[CreditingKarma]

Never heard anything out of the gumby. I have enjoyed the lcd x with the idsd bl and even more out of the sp1000 with a balanced connection. With the built in eq on the sp1000 you can almost match the correction from sonar works.

 

[rutter]

Things have gotten pretty interesting. I had a couple of older people try the LCD-X and HD800S, the former single-ended while the latter balanced. Right off the bat with that Tiesto Split song they found the 800S to be the better headphone, kind of emphatically too. The greater sense of space was noted as a positive, but what gives me pause is that one of them claimed the bass of the LCD-X is muddled. He pointed to how you get vibration with the 800S by contrast in that song, and I've also picked up on this in other songs. Then they took things further and went for:



Even I would admit the 800S is the superior headphone here, perhaps special although initially I was unimpressed (still short of special to be honest). The separation in favor of the 800S is much clearer here. Separation gets conflated with soundstage so make what you will of that statement. I'm still not floored by the 800S' soundstage despite what people say but there's clearly better separation and some sense of positioning. Further still, there is surprising dynamism as well. At around 11:00 the lady gets excited with the piano (took her some time) and it can sound evocative with the 800S. With the LCD-X you don't quite get a wall of sound but it's not probably nearly as good of a fit. I also wonder whether it isn't the LCD-X that sounds more artificial. That one person also claimed the LCD-X does something implicitly unnatural with the sound to make it sound stronger (maybe smear it some).

This complicates my thinking. I'm still inclined to keep the LCD-X on the premise that it's better for the music I prefer in particular - less complex with elements that benefit from being more in your face - but now I'm having serious second thoughts. Might have to do a lot of switching.

 

[rutter]

Today I had an ~20 year-old give the two a listen with the Tiesto song. He liked the HD800S more because it had better bass (lol). He claimed the bass was fuller, "making his head shake". This was a reference to the aforementioned vibration that slightly rattles the headphone. I disagree about the bass of the 800S being fuller and overall better. I find the LCD-X bass meatier and miss that with the 800S. So a way of describing it might be that the 800S has more controlled bass that may also be more distinct (one of the people from yesterday complimented the 800S' "sub-bass" specifically) but I think the LCD-X has more impact.

On the flipside, as I'm now seriously considering keeping the HD800S instead of the LCD-X, I ran into some unpleasantness. Female vocals and other stuff above them, even certain elements of the Tiesto song going after my ears. I was inclined to think that longer term I might experience some pain. At first I thought it was brightness but the Tiesto song stuff doesn't appear to be that high. No such issues with the LCD-X. If I never turn off the Gumby and Jot the sound may be smooth enough though. The 800S is also slightly thin. But the LCD-X is sort of cluttered by comparison. You can point to hearing specific sounds and claiming great separation all you want, this is not ideal. What I might end up doing is swing for the fences (and the bottom of my bank account)- keep the 800S and replace the Jot with a Gustard H20. Apparently that's supposed to do wonders for Sennheiser on the low end, is a soundstage improvement over the perhaps challenged Jot, and may have other advantages. But it would come with the risk of introducing the brightness and whatever harshness and piercing I'm trying to avoid.

 

[Tread]

Today I had an ~20 year-old give the two a listen with the Tiesto song. He liked the HD800S more because it had better bass (lol). He claimed the bass was fuller, "making his head shake". This was a reference to the aforementioned vibration that slightly rattles the headphone. I disagree about the bass of the 800S being fuller and overall better. I find the LCD-X bass meatier and miss that with the 800S. So a way of describing it might be that the 800S has more controlled bass that may also be more distinct (one of the people from yesterday complimented the 800S' "sub-bass" specifically) but I think the LCD-X has more impact.

On the flipside, as I'm now seriously considering keeping the HD800S instead of the LCD-X, I ran into some unpleasantness. Female vocals and other stuff above them, even certain elements of the Tiesto song going after my ears. I was inclined to think that longer term I might experience some pain. At first I thought it was brightness but the Tiesto song stuff doesn't appear to be that high. No such issues with the LCD-X. If I never turn off the Gumby and Jot the sound may be smooth enough though. The 800S is also slightly thin. But the LCD-X is sort of cluttered by comparison. You can point to hearing specific sounds and claiming great separation all you want, this is not ideal. What I might end up doing is swing for the fences (and the bottom of my bank account)- keep the 800S and replace the Jot with a Gustard H20. Apparently that's supposed to do wonders for Sennheiser on the low end, is a soundstage improvement over the perhaps challenged Jot, and may have other advantages. But it would come with the risk of introducing the brightness and whatever harshness and piercing I'm trying to avoid.[/QU

Today I had an ~20 year-old give the two a listen with the Tiesto song. He liked the HD800S more because it had better bass (lol). He claimed the bass was fuller, "making his head shake". This was a reference to the aforementioned vibration that slightly rattles the headphone. I disagree about the bass of the 800S being fuller and overall better. I find the LCD-X bass meatier and miss that with the 800S. So a way of describing it might be that the 800S has more controlled bass that may also be more distinct (one of the people from yesterday complimented the 800S' "sub-bass" specifically) but I think the LCD-X has more impact.

On the flipside, as I'm now seriously considering keeping the HD800S instead of the LCD-X, I ran into some unpleasantness. Female vocals and other stuff above them, even certain elements of the Tiesto song going after my ears. I was inclined to think that longer term I might experience some pain. At first I thought it was brightness but the Tiesto song stuff doesn't appear to be that high. No such issues with the LCD-X. If I never turn off the Gumby and Jot the sound may be smooth enough though. The 800S is also slightly thin. But the LCD-X is sort of cluttered by comparison. You can point to hearing specific sounds and claiming great separation all you want, this is not ideal. What I might end up doing is swing for the fences (and the bottom of my bank account)- keep the 800S and replace the Jot with a Gustard H20. Apparently that's supposed to do wonders for Sennheiser on the low end, is a soundstage improvement over the perhaps challenged Jot, and may have other advantages. But it would come with the risk of introducing the brightness and whatever harshness and piercing I'm trying to avoid.

You have to decide what moves your heart, despite other people's impressions. I had the opportunity to listen to HD 800s, with the dupont mod, side by side, with my LCD-X. The Senns had the clear advantage in rendering detail. Example, "Big Situation" by Leo Kottke. The soft percussive accompaniment was rendered more clearly by the Senns. Well recorded acoustic guitar is etched in space in a way that is transfixiing. Nevertheless, ultimately, the LCD-X are more emotionally involving for me personally. Some people hear in macro instead of micro, what about you? With "I Remember Vocal Mix" by Deadmau5 through the LCD-X, the music is clear yet deep, envelolping, and emotional. Even now, I could sell the LCD-X and purchase the Senns from a relative and clear 2-300 dollars. I just can't seem to make myself do it. For me, the Senns sounded less organic and alive, more scientific...

 

[rutter]

You have to equalize keep in mind. I won't get tired of recommending Sonarworks. Good song, by the way, currently listening with the HD800S. I think my impression quite matches what you describe with the LCD-X as I'm listening. I do still think that the 800S is slightly thin but the impressions of others have swayed me. For the first time I'm using the 800S instead of the LCD-X full-time and have been doing some more comparisons. You do have a point as I just switched back to the LCD-X. The LCD-X is a valid choice. I might even have to keep doing this (and it bears repeating I don't have a balanced cable for it). But the 800S is passable where it is weaker and perhaps with a better amp it could become truly excellent. With the LCD-X I'm inclined to think that certain things are just there to stay. The sound will remain relatively cluttered even with a balanced Norne Solvine cable and in ways it may just be a less resolving headphone. Back to the 800S now again... yes, you have a point.

It blows how significant downsides all these headphones have even after going to serious lengths to eliminate them. Sucks... I think I might have to punish myself with many more attempts at comparative listening and not try to jump to one. This is definitely disappointing though. You'd figure for the money...

 

[sahmen]

rutter : You should also remember that, as long as you haven't tested the LCD-X with a balanced cable on the Jot (which does both balanced and single-ended), you are short-changing it, especially when comparing it to another headphone such as the Hd800s, which is itself connected to the same amp via a balanced cable. It would be much fairer to compare both hps connected in single-ended mode (since you do not have a balanced cable for your LCD-X,) but even then, the results would not be entirely conclusive, because testing them on a different amp with different specs can produce entirely different results.

You do like what you like, and you probably can't help the results you're getting given the limitations of the gear you currently have--all of that is understandable... However, you ought to realize that certain hard and fast conclusions about each HP may simply not be warranted, under such testing circumstances:

example : "With the LCD-X I'm inclined to think that certain things are here to just here to stay. The sound will remain remain relatively cluttered...etc. etc"...

If you are accepting such a conclusion as final after testing the LCD-X only in single-ended playing mode on an amp that may be set up to perform better when used in balanced mode, then how can you consider your experimentation to be fair to the LCD-X? The ideal method would be to test each pair of cans under conditions of connectivity, and synergistic pairing that allow each one of them to perform optimally... before making any final judgments...

Full disclosure: I personally have both the LCD-X and the HD800, and am able use both in balanced mode, while pairing each of them with amps and DACs that make their better properties shine. I generally find the HD800 to be relatively better suited to certain kinds of specialized assignments, as compared to the LCD-X, but, between the two headphones, it is the LCD-X that gets far more listening time, because I find it to be the better all-rounder of the two, as well as the more emotionally involving one, when all things are said and done. While claims about the relatively wider soundstage of the HD-800 are well-founded, I will not call the sound signature of the LCD-X "relatively cluttered." Yes, it does have a less wide soundstage, as compared to the HD800, but that does not make its (the LCD-X's) soundscape or soundstage in anyway "cluttered." Your use of that word alone is making me suspect that your LCD-X is not functioning in the most optimal conditions, but it may just be me, and your mileage may well vary....

I just thought I should mention that...

 

[rutter]

I'm aware of that. I can actually go ahead and swap to the single-ended 800S cable. I am, however, highly skeptical of the LCD-X getting transformed with a balanced cable. I'll see what the difference in the 800S strikes me as and how it compares to the LCD-X.

Maybe you can try going down to single-ended with me and post your impressions, along with the gear you use. Without question the LCD-X is relatively cluttered in comparison to the 800S, albeit single-ended vs balanced at the moment. You can still be able to identify different sounds in a relative clutter.

 

[the finisher]

It's not the LCD X that's not performing optimally.

It just appears some people are happy being miserable.

 

[rutter]

I might need to keep flipping between the two 800S cables to come up with a solid difference, let alone the two headphones, and it feels bad unplugging cables from the 800S. I think I can just listen to the 800S like this. It's either deceptively difficult to spot big changes between single-ended and balanced, which is a possibility without flipping immediately, or it's just not that big of a deal. I'll flip with the LCD-X to see if it starts comparing more favorably.

 

[rutter]

That song Tread linked to does sound more evocative with the LCD-X. I got annoyed of listening to it with the 800S, thought to myself I can do better, plugged in the LCD-X and it's much more engaging. This is tough, man. It sounds kind of smeared or something though. I just can't win. Have been thinking of returning the LCD-X and dumping that money into a Gustard H20 or whatever it is. Sigh. It might take even more to return the 800S at this point. Maybe the even-ground comparison really helps the LCD-X. Wish it came with a goddamn balanced cable.

Ironically enough in that song the LCD-X excels with the female vocal, EQed. It's rather distant and pretty bland on the 800S, EQed as well. Overall the 800S is kind of dry.

@sahmen Can you do me a favor? Tell me what equipment you use and swap between single-ended and balanced with the LCD-X. What differences do you hear?

 

[rutter]

If anyone has a Norne Solvine balanced cable for the LCD-X they'd like to sell I'm buying it on the spot. I don't think financially I should be risking keeping both of these headphones.

Here's another song I'm currently listening to with both headphones single-ended:



So the HD800S has some more space, arguably even a bit of a cavity (there's not enough sound in the front, wonder if this has suddenly occurred with the cable switch), but that takes second place to the LCD-X sounding rather intoxicating. The 800S is dry and apparently rather distant.

Could this be a result of the Jot having so much less power single-ended, power being something the 800S really needs? Lol, seems to be the case after a cable swap. Fuller sound, female vocal much more present. Some side-action that wasn't even there. Wow. Big difference. Swapping cables an awful experience with this headphone, by the way. I'm almost afraid I broke or damaged something. The song is sounding kind of rough. Think that may just be the version though.

So it's quite possible I'm really not giving the LCD-X a fair chance.

PS

I might be able to get my hands relatively quickly on a Wywires Red cable. Thoughts? Bass rumble exclusive to the 800S balanced cable with the Jot. I'm a ****ing idiot. The LCD-X for being single-ended sounds quite fine. The problem in trying to draw conclusions is that it doesn't need extra power. Think the Jot crosses over the 1W minimum.

So as an answer to a previous thought, yes, you really need to be able to switch quickly between two things you're comparing as you can apparently miss huge differences.

 

[commtrd]

It's not the LCD X that's not performing optimally.

It just appears some people are happy being miserable.

Heh well said... For the record, my X on Solvine SE out of Hugo 2 sounds delish. Just sayin'... No prob here whatsoever. =^)

 

[the finisher]

Yes, I'll be keeping mine for the foreseeable future.

 

[commtrd]

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=daft+punk+dance&t=ffnt&atb=v117-4_f&ia=videos&iax=videos&iai=NF-kLy44Hls

Now I typically don't listen to this kind of music as a rule, but this one is just infectious on my little system. Crank it up tight and give it a listen, if you're not tappin toes there's something wrong with ya!

BTW that song above, the X takes that bass and has its way with it. Even single ended... Who woulda thought? =^)