Audeze LCD i4 TOTL In-Ear Monitor Discussion
Aug 1, 2017 at 9:59 PM Post #661 of 4,786
Has anyone tried the i4 with the new Questyle QP2R? Just curious. I would love to get the Hugo 2, but my burst appendicitis drained my wallet for the time being.
 
Aug 2, 2017 at 1:51 AM Post #662 of 4,786
*DSP setting updated*

After hours of critical listening, I've found out that the problem is the way these transition from 2k to 3k. I feel like theres a big hole on the FR between 3-5k i believe its close to 10db of dip. causing the overly forward pianos and distant presence.

This is what my updated correction looks like with a more optimised Q factor.

With this correction the overall curve is as close as it gets to the harman respose curve with a slightly more forward midrange. Sweet!

Prepare yourself a powerful amp to compensate 9db of gain

20170802_120759.png
 

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Aug 2, 2017 at 11:07 AM Post #663 of 4,786
*DSP setting updated*

After hours of critical listening, I've found out that the problem is the way these transition from 2k to 3k. I feel like theres a big hole on the FR between 3-5k i believe its close to 10db of dip. causing the overly forward pianos and distant presence.

This is what my updated correction looks like with a more optimised Q factor.

With this correction the overall curve is as close as it gets to the harman respose curve with a slightly more forward midrange. Sweet!

Prepare yourself a powerful amp to compensate 9db of gain


Can you post your settings (e.g., frequency, gain, Q factor) for each of the six sections in your eq?
 
Aug 2, 2017 at 3:07 PM Post #664 of 4,786
*DSP setting updated*

After hours of critical listening, I've found out that the problem is the way these transition from 2k to 3k. I feel like theres a big hole on the FR between 3-5k i believe its close to 10db of dip. causing the overly forward pianos and distant presence.

This is what my updated correction looks like with a more optimised Q factor.

With this correction the overall curve is as close as it gets to the harman respose curve with a slightly more forward midrange. Sweet!

Prepare yourself a powerful amp to compensate 9db of gain


Thanks for sharing this. Based on your's and KMann's EQ recommendations, It appears the i4 follows the same footsteps as the iSine 20 with a design and tuning focused on low distortion. And so, to achieve the headphone target curve, one need to employ DSP or EQ or Filters. To read more about how iSine 20 is tuned and why it is tuned so, please read this article:

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/audeze-isine-20-planar-magnetic-ear-earphone-page-2
 
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Aug 2, 2017 at 5:42 PM Post #665 of 4,786
Question(s)........

All of my headphone set ups are either portable or transportable since most of my distraction free listening time occurs while traveling on business each week. Even when I'm at home I prefer transportable since I tend to move from room to room, patio to deck etc while trying to avoid noise from the kids. I don't mind gear that requires a power plug since I'm always close to one but some battery life is nice.

Questions... I've had the LCDi4's for close to a month now and absolutely love them. They're incredible, but as I continue to raise my own bar on sound quality, I start to wonder if I'm missing out not running these from a more powerful amp. I've never been to a meet up and have made most of my purchases on line so I've really only listened to equipment I own (or returned).

1. What could I expect a more powerful amp to do for the performance of my current gear, specifically the i4's?
2. I get the diminishing return effect of gear in this hobby so I typically aim for close to the top for my phones so that they are not the weak link in the chain and than with other pieces of gear I don't want to spend on "the best" but I want something that won't leave me with the urge to upgrade six months down the road. That said, do you have any recommendations on an amp that would add to what I already have? Unless there was something killer that added tremendous value in a portable form factor, I would be fine with transportable. I'm not looking for a 50 pound, $6K McIntosh either. That would be nice but to heavy and beyond what I would want to spend.

Gear....

Players = Macbook Pro + Roon / iPad / Iphone SE + HF Player (Tidal 80% / local lossless 20%)
DAC/AMPs = Woo Audio WA8, Mojo, Hugo 2
Phones = LCDi4, ISINE 20, Campfire Andromeda, HD800S and InEar Prophile 8 (on order)
 
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Aug 2, 2017 at 6:16 PM Post #666 of 4,786
1. What could I expect a more powerful amp to do for the performance of my current gear, specifically the i4's?

Specifically for the i4's, not really much, unless you turn up the volume near max and destroy your hearing. More power isn't the yardstick for quality once there is enough, with some headroom. Look for a low distortion amp that's well designed, as the i4 has very good speed and distortion measurements. I suggest you try to volume match within 0.1dB and then you'll hear what each piece of gear sounds like without volume differences convincing you that something is more dynamic or 'better' from more power. This is a common mistake that perpetuates the ridiculous amounts of power myth.

As I posted earlier I ran the i4 from the Liquid Gold ($4K - 9W) and it added the Cavalli house sound and good separation but it did that at all volumes and I didn't hit anywhere near the max 9W output fed in to the i4. You already have some top flight gear that has far and away more than enough power for the i4, and from there I would suggest you look for synergy or tonality changes from similar performing gear if you are looking for something other than what you have. Too much money is spent on gear with a high max power spec and not enough attention is paid to the other aspects of gear that actually matter more in the end. Seriously, the power pay for but don't use will be a waste with the i4, if only looking at the max power spec.
 
Aug 2, 2017 at 6:56 PM Post #667 of 4,786
Thanks for your response. I've been around long enough to understand that more power for the sake of power does not add value to the equation. I should have worded that differently. I was more interested in the potential change in dynamics one could expect from attaching a more high end power source (with it's own house sound and qualities). I can understand the benefits in technology as it relates to DACs. A Dave should offer more than a Hugo 2 and I obviously get the difference between solid state and tube amps, and the various factors that separate entry from higher end within those categories. That said, you also read review after review saying "X was very good for a mobile unit" or "Y sounded almost as good as a desktop amp" etc.. I guess I'm trying to understand what high end amps and other "desktop" like components add to the equation. I get the context around "house sound", but it's hard to understand how and why you get it, and what variables to look for unless you are able to put fingers to knobs and hear it for yourself I suppose. "Synergy" is a word often used in this hobby, but simple words such as "better" come into play too. There's a reason people are willing to spend the money they do with their home systems and sacrafice certain levels of quality in their mobile set up.

Your post are always very informative and appreciated. I am not disagreeing with your comment at all. I'm simply saying I don't understand the (ultra)high end side of this hobby but know it's not understood overnight and it surely isn't understood by only reading reviews. I just want to squeeze every drop of goodness out of these i4's. For a change I'm not trying to correct a problem, I'm trying to take something that is already perfect to my ears to the next level with the knowledge that many on this forum are already there (thus my HeadFi name.... There really is no end game which is one of the best parts of this hobby).
 
Aug 2, 2017 at 7:11 PM Post #668 of 4,786
@EndGameSearch, my apologies if I came across as condescending in any way. Often well designed gear also has a high output spec, but in the end that's only one spec. The i4's, to my ears, have a very low distortion and that's precisely why I love them. I find them fast and articulate to the point that they can reveal the slightest flaws in recordings, which isn't always a positive. If it were me I'd pair it with a similarly great performer in the distortion department, but for others the synergy and tonality preferences would come more in to play.

How do you find the Hugo2 with them vs the WA8? This will help narrow down where your next search will be as they are very different from a distortion point of view vs a tonality / synergy point of view. At this level of gear the differences really come down to synergy as opposed to output power, at least for something like the i4. If talking about an Abyss, Susvara, etc, then power will be a more prominent part of the equation.
 
Aug 2, 2017 at 8:58 PM Post #669 of 4,786
I have spent 98% of my listening time with the i4's on the Hugo 2. The WA8 + HD800S was my travel rig (yes, the HD's are a pain in the ass to travel with). I bought the i4's and Hugo 2 to replace the former which are now parked on my bedside table at home. For the record, that's a fantastic combo. With the i4's, the Hugo 2 is ever so slightly better with detail. On paper it should be more than "slightly" better but I really am amazed by the WA8. Running the Hugo through the WA8 is the best of both worlds (tube+chord tech) but I have spent very little time listening to that configuration. In the car and around the house I listen to various genres of music but with phones I primarily critically listen to classical. I want as much detail, clarity and air as possible and the i4's + Hugo 2 are faultless to my 43 year old ears.

If I could only keep the HD800S or the LCDi4's I would keep the i4's. That said, from a sound stage and overall "largeness", or sense of size/volume standpoint the HD800S still takes the cake but the comfort and convenience of the i4's combined with the SQ which is on par with the HD800S makes them the overall winner. I've read many post where the user said they were replacing TOTL full sized headphones with the i4's. Not me. I want and have a place for both since there are trade-offs with each. So that gets me back to my original question. I don't notice distortion of any kind with the i4's. Is it possible to improve upon the detail, clarity, layering, and sound stage? I would have to assume yes or the Hugo 2 + i4's would be everyone's end game. Regardless, I would assume we're talking single digit percentage improvements (not looking for an argument on the concept of quantifying improvements :) ) and my money may be better spent on a different source (currently Macbook + Roon), purpose built USB cables or other pieces of the chain.

I don't need to take up more space on a thread read by so many. When it comes down to it, this is analogous to many of the finer things we all pursue. Give a priceless bottle of wine to a non-wine drinker and he will claim it's the best wine he's ever had. Give the same bottle to a wine connoisseur and he will taste it in a completely different fashion and describe in detail why it's the best wine he's ever had, backed with years of experience. I may or may not have the experience to recognize the incremental improvements I'm chasing at this point but it's fun trying none the less with the knowledge that "better" is out there.
 
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Aug 2, 2017 at 11:32 PM Post #670 of 4,786
“Better” is always out there...even if you have the best
 
Aug 3, 2017 at 4:14 PM Post #671 of 4,786
I received my i4's today and after a bit of an issue trying to figure out how to wear them properly i got things sorted out and hooked them up to my Hugo 2..shocked is the best way to describe my reaction to what i heard....something this small and relatively comfortable created sound that rivals my full sized HP's...wide soundstage,detailed with solid bass....is it the LCD-4?...not quite but it isnt far off and to be able to travel with these babies and listen to music on this scale is truly a treat ..HIGHLY recommended!
 
Aug 3, 2017 at 9:26 PM Post #672 of 4,786
I received my i4's today and after a bit of an issue trying to figure out how to wear them properly i got things sorted out and hooked them up to my Hugo 2..shocked is the best way to describe my reaction to what i heard....something this small and relatively comfortable created sound that rivals my full sized HP's...wide soundstage,detailed with solid bass....is it the LCD-4?...not quite but it isnt far off and to be able to travel with these babies and listen to music on this scale is truly a treat ..HIGHLY recommended!

Hey congrats man! I totally agree with your assessments!
 
Aug 3, 2017 at 9:52 PM Post #673 of 4,786
Yes as I wrote I really was taken aback
 
Aug 3, 2017 at 10:12 PM Post #674 of 4,786
So I’ve been using my i4s primarily listening to Tidal Hifi throungh my iPhone and then to my Mojo, but all the glowing Hugo 2 reviews have me curious about it. For those of you with both, what do you find to be the main differences and improvements with the i4 stepping from the Mojo to the hugo2? I’ve heard better clarity and instrument separation. Is that the brunt of it?
 
Aug 3, 2017 at 10:55 PM Post #675 of 4,786
So I’ve been using my i4s primarily listening to Tidal Hifi throungh my iPhone and then to my Mojo, but all the glowing Hugo 2 reviews have me curious about it. For those of you with both, what do you find to be the main differences and improvements with the i4 stepping from the Mojo to the hugo2? I’ve heard better clarity and instrument separation. Is that the brunt of it?

Better clarity, control, sound staging and a tighter and more transparent presentation to the Mojo. The Hugo 2 can firmly drive these in ears and as a pairing can rival any TOTL desktop setup.
 

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