Audeze LCD i4 TOTL In-Ear Monitor Discussion
Nov 12, 2018 at 3:22 PM Post #2,401 of 4,786
Has anyone compared the LCDi4 with the Hifiman RE-2000? Not that I really need another iem, but they have it on sale for about half the price, and that just made me curious. If you have auditioned both, and would like to share your impressions that would be really appreciated.

Thanks

P.
Quoting Steve Guttenberg’s review of Audeze LCD i4 on Sound & Vision.
“I squeezed in some time to compare the LCDi4s with HiFiMan’s flagship RE2000 in-ear headphones ($2,000), and the HiFiMans’ sound was more inside my skull. I missed the LCDi4s’ vast, beautifully focused soundstage, deliciously transparent midrange, and clearer top end, and the LCDi4s’ low-bass articulation and power handily trumped the RE2000s’.”
 
Nov 12, 2018 at 3:23 PM Post #2,402 of 4,786
I've owned both. The LCDi4 being open backed kinda makes it an unfair comparison. However, both are great within their class. I highly recommend the RE2000, it is a killer IEM. The soundstage is great for an IEM, not as expansive as the LCDi4, but super for a closed back. Check out the below link for my initial impressions on the RE2000. Let me know if you have any questions :)

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...-end-dynamic-iem.851656/page-25#post-14336667

Thanks for sharing. You said the Atlas beats the Re 2000 in the area of bass response. How will the Re2000 stack up agains the LCDi4 in the same area (bass)?
 
Nov 12, 2018 at 3:24 PM Post #2,403 of 4,786
Quoting Steve Guttenberg’s review of Audeze LCD i4 on Sound & Vision.
“I squeezed in some time to compare the LCDi4s with HiFiMan’s flagship RE2000 in-ear headphones ($2,000), and the HiFiMans’ sound was more inside my skull. I missed the LCDi4s’ vast, beautifully focused soundstage, deliciously transparent midrange, and clearer top end, and the LCDi4s’ low-bass articulation and power handily trumped the RE2000s’.”
Interesting. Thanks
 
Nov 12, 2018 at 7:11 PM Post #2,404 of 4,786
as far as portables go you cannot beat the i4.....it is about as close to the sound of a full size HP as exists...n the other hand it does not isolate sound at all and can be a bit tough to wear....all in an incredible product IMHO
 
Nov 12, 2018 at 9:52 PM Post #2,405 of 4,786
as far as portables go you cannot beat the i4.....it is about as close to the sound of a full size HP as exists...n the other hand it does not isolate sound at all and can be a bit tough to wear....all in an incredible product IMHO

They are simply my favourite portable earphones...listening to Streisand's latest album on Tidal with my Hugo2 and portable music just doesn't get any better with in-ears.
 
Nov 12, 2018 at 9:54 PM Post #2,406 of 4,786
i tend to agree with you on most everything but i will say if you want to listen to streisand this last album aint the one to listen to lol
 
Nov 12, 2018 at 9:56 PM Post #2,407 of 4,786
i tend to agree with you on most everything but i will say if you want to listen to streisand this last album aint the one to listen to lol

Lol, giving it a try for the first time. Sounds amazing with this setup.
 
Nov 16, 2018 at 12:12 PM Post #2,408 of 4,786
Longtime Head-Fi lurker, so I pretty much never post...except when a headphone absolutely blows me away. I got the LCD-i4s on the B-stock sale and while I wasn't initially enamored with it, after setting up the official Audeze Reveal plug-in and pairing the headphones with my iDSD Black Label, it consistently puts a smile on my face listening to any genre of music! With the price tag though, I still wasn't set on keeping them, so I've been trying out a few other TOTL IEMs to really prove to myself that these LCD-i4s are truly amazing. Been testing out the RHA CL2s over the past week, and they're nice especially for being closed-back planars, but worth the $900 price tag? Not really. And neither would the LCD-i4s if I had to pay $2500, but for $1000...that's enough for me to sell the rest of my high-end headphones because my ears are spoiled. The LCD-i4s easily replace my LCD-2s, which first got me into the audiophile world.

I will say that there is a drop-down in sound when I move from my desktop setup to something portable. Even with the Cipher cable, the DSP settings are nice, but it doesn't beat having the same EQ with the Audeze Reveal plugin PLUS a dedicated headphone amp. I have a pair of Hifiman RE2000s on the way from their Black Friday sale (down from $2000 to $799!). Still trying to see if I can find a more portable equivalent to these LCD-i4s. The open-back design is my main issue. I've toyed around with the idea of getting some earmuffs like the ones used for loud construction, and see if I can adjust the EQ to makeup for the loss of bass when the open-back ports are closed off.

Still, amazing headphones. Using stock tips. No issues with the earclips. If you have a Windows setup, highly recommend Equalizer APO and loading the Audeze Reveal VST plugin. And I highly recommend the iDSD Micro Black Label with both the bass boost and 3D sound turned on. Just wish Audeze would design a USB-C equivalent to the Cipher cable, so I could use these with my Android phone.
 
Nov 16, 2018 at 2:03 PM Post #2,409 of 4,786
Longtime Head-Fi lurker, so I pretty much never post...except when a headphone absolutely blows me away. I got the LCD-i4s on the B-stock sale and while I wasn't initially enamored with it, after setting up the official Audeze Reveal plug-in and pairing the headphones with my iDSD Black Label, it consistently puts a smile on my face listening to any genre of music! With the price tag though, I still wasn't set on keeping them, so I've been trying out a few other TOTL IEMs to really prove to myself that these LCD-i4s are truly amazing. Been testing out the RHA CL2s over the past week, and they're nice especially for being closed-back planars, but worth the $900 price tag? Not really. And neither would the LCD-i4s if I had to pay $2500, but for $1000...that's enough for me to sell the rest of my high-end headphones because my ears are spoiled. The LCD-i4s easily replace my LCD-2s, which first got me into the audiophile world.

I will say that there is a drop-down in sound when I move from my desktop setup to something portable. Even with the Cipher cable, the DSP settings are nice, but it doesn't beat having the same EQ with the Audeze Reveal plugin PLUS a dedicated headphone amp. I have a pair of Hifiman RE2000s on the way from their Black Friday sale (down from $2000 to $799!). Still trying to see if I can find a more portable equivalent to these LCD-i4s. The open-back design is my main issue. I've toyed around with the idea of getting some earmuffs like the ones used for loud construction, and see if I can adjust the EQ to makeup for the loss of bass when the open-back ports are closed off.

Still, amazing headphones. Using stock tips. No issues with the earclips. If you have a Windows setup, highly recommend Equalizer APO and loading the Audeze Reveal VST plugin. And I highly recommend the iDSD Micro Black Label with both the bass boost and 3D sound turned on. Just wish Audeze would design a USB-C equivalent to the Cipher cable, so I could use these with my Android phone.

The i4's are really in a class of their own once you figure out the right fit, etc. I've spent a lot of time (and $$) trying to find something that comes close that is closed/sound isolating. I actually think the CL2s have a lot of the qualities of the i4s in terms of dynamism and transparency, though they have a lot more energy in the treble. One word on the CL2s...They require a LOT of burn in (150 hrs +) and are pretty tip dependent (symbio Ws worked best for me, but everyone's different). I am not someone who is generally a big believer in burn in, but the CL2s definitely improve with time. The stock cables they come with also do not do them any favors. if you have an all copper cable lying around, that seems to help warm up the upper mids.
 
Nov 16, 2018 at 3:22 PM Post #2,410 of 4,786
The i4's are really in a class of their own once you figure out the right fit, etc. I've spent a lot of time (and $$) trying to find something that comes close that is closed/sound isolating. I actually think the CL2s have a lot of the qualities of the i4s in terms of dynamism and transparency, though they have a lot more energy in the treble. One word on the CL2s...They require a LOT of burn in (150 hrs +) and are pretty tip dependent (symbio Ws worked best for me, but everyone's different). I am not someone who is generally a big believer in burn in, but the CL2s definitely improve with time. The stock cables they come with also do not do them any favors. if you have an all copper cable lying around, that seems to help warm up the upper mids.

Any luck on finding a closed IEM similar enough to the LCD-i4s? I have a feeling I'll be chasing that sound for awhile with no perfect solution, given the open-back design. I've been following the CL2 thread and read about the required burn-in, so I'll probably do that over the next few days. I do think the CL2s are great, but since they still don't sound as good as the LCD-i4s, I'm always left wondering if there's a different IEM that'll get me closer. Hence, the RE2000 purchase. Very curious about the Campfire Solaris as well, but would prefer not spending more than what I paid for the LCD-i4s.
 
Nov 17, 2018 at 1:56 AM Post #2,412 of 4,786
Any luck on finding a closed IEM similar enough to the LCD-i4s? I have a feeling I'll be chasing that sound for awhile with no perfect solution, given the open-back design. I've been following the CL2 thread and read about the required burn-in, so I'll probably do that over the next few days. I do think the CL2s are great, but since they still don't sound as good as the LCD-i4s, I'm always left wondering if there's a different IEM that'll get me closer. Hence, the RE2000 purchase. Very curious about the Campfire Solaris as well, but would prefer not spending more than what I paid for the LCD-i4s.

So I should preface this with the comment that the ideal signature in a closed iem for me would be what the i4s have, with perhaps a little bit more warmth. This also surely doesn't help, but now having the stable of the i4, Solaris, phantom, CL2, and Atlas, I truly have zero desire for any additional acquisitions (famous last words, but I have a feeling this will stick for quite a while). They each capture key pieces of the i4 signature, but none of them are perfect analogues, and none of them really get to the same level of open soundstage that the i4s have because, well, they're not open.

The CL2s, once burned in, have a lot of the speed, detail, transparency, cohesiveness, and comfort I love about the the i4s and which are characteristic of planar drivers. They also capture one of the i4 x-factors that are really rare in iems, which is that sense of effortlessness that the i4s have that makes it seem like sound is just instantly, effortlessly conjured out of thin air, rather than coming from a driver less than an inch from your ear. This adds to their transparency and their seeming to disappear. Their bass is similarly authoritative and deeeep when in the recording and their treble has a similar, somewhat laid back, but hyper-detailed sweetness of the i4. The CL2s, however, have much more energetic upper mids, which, especially before they are fully burnt in, can slip into harshness. They also sound thicker than the i4. Though they have a decent soundstage, it is nowhere near as big or open as the i4. A warmer copper cable definitely helps the energetic upper mids. Getting an 8-wire copper cable also helps with the openness (doesn't need to be an expensive one--$30-40 **** or kinboofi 8 or 16 wire copper cable does it).

The Solaris may come closest to the i4s overall, but just a little bit warmer. They are definitely the most cohesive hybrid iem I've heard. They have a similar emphasis on subbass as the i4 and have similarly great extension, but decay is slower (not necessarily worse, just a different characteristically). Clarity, texture, layering, imaging, and space in between instruments is tip top, equaling the i4s. It also has some of the largest soundstage I've heard from a closed iem and all these things come together to give that same holographic quality the i4 has. Mids on the solaris are similarly silky smooth (but detailed) as the i4, although they are, to me, a little more forward. Where they differ is in the treble, with the solaris treble being more sparkly and energetic without ever slipping into harshness. They also don't have that effortlessness that the i4s and CL2 have. They are pretty new (got them about two weeks ago), and I think the bass may still be changing (see below on my thoughts on atlas, which has a similar dynamic driver and required a lot of time to settle into their final sound).

The phantom is much warmer than the i4s across the spectrum and have a much thicker, more intimate sound with rounder notes. They do however, have excellent imaging and transparency and also have the holographic, 3-dimensional qualities of the i4. With the warmth, there is more of an emphasis down low, with great texture and speed characteristic of BA bass, but with a more organic decay and resonance than you typically get with most BAs. It’s not dynamic driver (or planar) bass, but it is fuller than most BA iems give you. Even with the warm presentation, they are fantastically linear across the spectrum (also fairly i4 like). the Phantoms can, and do sound more lifelike in their timbre and with many instruments, particularly cello, than any other iems I have heard, including the i4s. It is a colored, but very natural, organic sound.

The Atlas is a visceral, fun, big sounding iem. It, like the CL2, and to a somewhat lesser extent the solaris, also requires a lot of time for their sound to settle (100 hrs plus). They produce a real physical wall of sound Once burned in, they have a lovely, very cohesive, and, when in the music, very bassy signature. Like the phantom, I find it a very natural tuning with very well rounded notes, albeit weighted down low like a medicine ball. The bass doesn’t not spill into the other sections, which is quite a trick. Mids are more neutrally placed and farther back than on Solaris, phantom, or cl2, but (once burned in) not recessed. Highs has a nice amount of air, have what i would call a sheen but not quite sparkle, but are not fatiguing at all for me. The Atlas is very forgiving and makes even poorly recorded/mastered music sound great. It is well detailed, but not hyper detailed. Because of its physicality, it is not a relaxing iem, but it is an addictive signature foe when you want that extra grunt down low.

Hope that’s helpful!
 
Nov 17, 2018 at 8:35 AM Post #2,413 of 4,786
So I should preface this with the comment that the ideal signature in a closed iem for me would be what the i4s have, with perhaps a little bit more warmth. This also surely doesn't help, but now having the stable of the i4, Solaris, phantom, CL2, and Atlas, I truly have zero desire for any additional acquisitions (famous last words, but I have a feeling this will stick for quite a while). They each capture key pieces of the i4 signature, but none of them are perfect analogues, and none of them really get to the same level of open soundstage that the i4s have because, well, they're not open.

The CL2s, once burned in, have a lot of the speed, detail, transparency, cohesiveness, and comfort I love about the the i4s and which are characteristic of planar drivers. They also capture one of the i4 x-factors that are really rare in iems, which is that sense of effortlessness that the i4s have that makes it seem like sound is just instantly, effortlessly conjured out of thin air, rather than coming from a driver less than an inch from your ear. This adds to their transparency and their seeming to disappear. Their bass is similarly authoritative and deeeep when in the recording and their treble has a similar, somewhat laid back, but hyper-detailed sweetness of the i4. The CL2s, however, have much more energetic upper mids, which, especially before they are fully burnt in, can slip into harshness. They also sound thicker than the i4. Though they have a decent soundstage, it is nowhere near as big or open as the i4. A warmer copper cable definitely helps the energetic upper mids. Getting an 8-wire copper cable also helps with the openness (doesn't need to be an expensive one--$30-40 **** or kinboofi 8 or 16 wire copper cable does it).

The Solaris may come closest to the i4s overall, but just a little bit warmer. They are definitely the most cohesive hybrid iem I've heard. They have a similar emphasis on subbass as the i4 and have similarly great extension, but decay is slower (not necessarily worse, just a different characteristically). Clarity, texture, layering, imaging, and space in between instruments is tip top, equaling the i4s. It also has some of the largest soundstage I've heard from a closed iem and all these things come together to give that same holographic quality the i4 has. Mids on the solaris are similarly silky smooth (but detailed) as the i4, although they are, to me, a little more forward. Where they differ is in the treble, with the solaris treble being more sparkly and energetic without ever slipping into harshness. They also don't have that effortlessness that the i4s and CL2 have. They are pretty new (got them about two weeks ago), and I think the bass may still be changing (see below on my thoughts on atlas, which has a similar dynamic driver and required a lot of time to settle into their final sound).

The phantom is much warmer than the i4s across the spectrum and have a much thicker, more intimate sound with rounder notes. They do however, have excellent imaging and transparency and also have the holographic, 3-dimensional qualities of the i4. With the warmth, there is more of an emphasis down low, with great texture and speed characteristic of BA bass, but with a more organic decay and resonance than you typically get with most BAs. It’s not dynamic driver (or planar) bass, but it is fuller than most BA iems give you. Even with the warm presentation, they are fantastically linear across the spectrum (also fairly i4 like). the Phantoms can, and do sound more lifelike in their timbre and with many instruments, particularly cello, than any other iems I have heard, including the i4s. It is a colored, but very natural, organic sound.

The Atlas is a visceral, fun, big sounding iem. It, like the CL2, and to a somewhat lesser extent the solaris, also requires a lot of time for their sound to settle (100 hrs plus). They produce a real physical wall of sound Once burned in, they have a lovely, very cohesive, and, when in the music, very bassy signature. Like the phantom, I find it a very natural tuning with very well rounded notes, albeit weighted down low like a medicine ball. The bass doesn’t not spill into the other sections, which is quite a trick. Mids are more neutrally placed and farther back than on Solaris, phantom, or cl2, but (once burned in) not recessed. Highs has a nice amount of air, have what i would call a sheen but not quite sparkle, but are not fatiguing at all for me. The Atlas is very forgiving and makes even poorly recorded/mastered music sound great. It is well detailed, but not hyper detailed. Because of its physicality, it is not a relaxing iem, but it is an addictive signature foe when you want that extra grunt down low.

Hope that’s helpful!
Thank you @sorrick
That was a very detailed comparison.
Btw which iem has the best fit and comfort..LCD i4 with rubber tubing for me is very comfortable for long sessions as well.

Have you tried pairing the above mentioned iems with desktop DAC / AMP?

I am asking because LCD i4 scalability is insane. LCD i4 performs so much better on my desktop setup as compared to portable.
 
Nov 17, 2018 at 10:24 AM Post #2,414 of 4,786
Thank you @sorrick
That was a very detailed comparison.
Btw which iem has the best fit and comfort..LCD i4 with rubber tubing for me is very comfortable for long sessions as well.

Have you tried pairing the above mentioned iems with desktop DAC / AMP?

I am asking because LCD i4 scalability is insane. LCD i4 performs so much better on my desktop setup as compared to portable.

Fit wise, all are comfortable for me, but some dissappear more than others. I’m OG with the earlocks on the i4, which work great with my ears and are very comfortable even long term. Of the closed iems, the CL2s are the most comfortable because they are tiny and truly disappear in your ears. They are the first iem I’ve had where I can fall asleep with them in my earsying on my side and not even feel them. They also isolate really well. The phantoms are probably next smallest and fit second best within my ears. They also isolate well and have the the lightest earpieces. The Solaris fits very comfortably in my ears, but do stick out a little more, so you notice them if you, say wear a winter hat that goes over your ears (still wearable, but you feel them when covered). I feel the phantoms too with a hat on, but they do sit flusher with my ears. The atlas are quite comfortable and I like that you can wear them down (easy for commuting...the extra bass is also great here for subway/public transport) but their fit is more finicky and takes a while to find the right tips and technique so you don’t have driver flex/suction caused that cuts out the sound. For all the iems I have now, I like Symbio w tips the best, but ymmv.

All of these iems scale well with sources, although my desktop level amps are limited to the cavalli liquid carbon 2.0. The i4s are an obvious standout here although their synergy with the Hugo 2 leaves me wanting for little from higher level desktop sources. The phantoms and CL2s both scale really really well too, albeit the the phantoms are much more sensitive and prone to hiss (hugo2 hisses with the phantom, but no hiss with LC2.0 or SP1000M). The advantage of the cl2 and the atlas is that they require a little more oomph to drive than the phantom, so they are much less hissy (no hiss with any of my sources). The Solaris is actually more sensitive in terms of volume than my phantoms, but they also seem to hiss less as the Hugo2 hiss is barely audible and after being warmed up, goes away completely. I haven’t plugged my Solaris into the LC2.0 yet, but based on the amount that the Atlas tightens up as sources scale (and given the Solaris has the same or a very similar dynamic driver), I anticipate it will scale get well indeed.
 
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