Audeze LCD-4
Jan 31, 2017 at 2:12 AM Post #5,416 of 10,167

KMann

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The 200 ohm and 100 ohm versions of LCD-4 use the same magnetic circuit. The main difference between them is the 200 ohm version uses a diaphragm metal layer that is about half the thickness of the 100 ohm version (which would explain the doubling of impedance).
 
The thinner metal layer has several advantages:
  • A significant decrease in the mass of the diaphragm (as the weight of metal used was cut by half), this reduces the inertia of the diaphragm and results in a faster response. 
  • Thinner metal layer makes the diaphragm more pliable to shock as thinner metal layer is more flexible. The tensioned diaphragm have higher compliance and lower resonant frequency.
 
The expected improvements are improved response at both ends, improved midrange transparency and more precise imaging. However, the thinner and more dense metal layer makes the manufacturing process  longer and expensive. 
 
Jan 31, 2017 at 2:30 AM Post #5,417 of 10,167

up late

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Interesting read here in this thread now.

I too own the LCD4 200 ohm, and very very happy with it as I feed it with enough power to open up the soundstage.

I also reviewed the Focal Utopia on similar setup and tested my LCD4 side by side, and for 95% of the music LCD4 is perfect as it is, but Focal Utopia has both drawbacks and superior to the LCD4. First drawback, Utopia lacks the excellent bass extension and accuracy in lower-mid tones. Also I felt some instruments to be screaming in my ear with Focal Utopia, some violin and high saxhophone for some reason which LCD4 controls perfectly.
The superior part Utopia has is the instruments from lower tones to higher tones how damn accurate they sound to real life. Its hard to describe, but LCD4 is dampening the tones on its way to high treble, and that does something to the tones up there. But this is only for about 5% of the music out there. 

Both TOTL LCD4 and Utopia has small issues that manufacturers should look into fixing. Apparently the Focal Elear pads are better on the Utopia than the original utopia pads and gives better bass extention. That makes me think of the thick LCD4 pads, no wonder why we have such great bass extention and accuracy in lower spectre on LCD4.

Mabye different LCD4 pads to fine adjust the tonal spectre for the tones in upper mid-range to treble ? Not sure if its possible to get both, seems like either its dampening things or open things up.

Just suggesting after-market sales for Audeze I guess.


having auditioned both the lcd-4 and the utopia, i regard the utopia's lighter weight and ergonomics as a distinct advantage over the lcd-4. it's also more efficient, making it easier to drive which goes in its favour. i think this is worth considering when comparing the pros and cons of these cans.

i also think that claiming the elear's ear pads improve the utopia's performance is debatable, and very much a matter of personal preference from what i've read.
 
Jan 31, 2017 at 2:07 PM Post #5,418 of 10,167

JohnnyCakes

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I do not know why people feel i'm saying "you are stupid if you do not feel what I feel." It would be totally stupid saying that as far as NOBODY is hearing the same thing.

Maybe because english is not my native language...?

I came here simply to discuss to the strange way audeze behaved to the lcd 4 100ohm driver issue. They build an exceptionnal headphones not that hard to drive but some of them broke. I mean, no pain no gain. They should take their responsability and simply fix or replace with the same.

What they did is just not acceptable to me. At least, for a totl 4000 usd headphones, they should let the choice to the customers, to the 100ohm owners. What they did is the easiest way to reduce the cost as far as it is possible without the full customer satisfaction.

They lose a lot of credibility : they said the 100ohm was the best of the best, a tour de force, and suddently pretend the same in 200ohm is better and everybody should clap their hands ?

I am feeling lucky I have the original 100ohm and it didn't brake yet...trying to know by the way if there are other 100ohm owners.

 
if all that matters to you is how easy a headphone is to drive, that's fine.  go get a Utopia or something easier to drive.  
 
the problem is that you are also insisting that the 200ohm version SOUNDS WORSE than the 100ohm version.  which is categorically false.  
 
Jan 31, 2017 at 5:26 PM Post #5,419 of 10,167

jlbrach

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I have both the LCD-4 and the utopia ...i go back and forth between the 2 but in the end I keep coming back to the LCD-4......
 
Jan 31, 2017 at 6:26 PM Post #5,420 of 10,167

Modwright01

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if all that matters to you is how easy a headphone is to drive, that's fine.  go get a Utopia or something easier to drive.  
 
the problem is that you are also insisting that the 200ohm version SOUNDS WORSE than the 100ohm version.  which is categorically false.  

As far as I'm concerned, they are not supposed to sound better as lot of people said.
 
Obviously, at the same level on the same amp, the 200ohm will sound lower than the 100 ohm. Period.  Again, It is obvious, and to me it is certainly not a better aspect. End of the story.
 
Jan 31, 2017 at 7:09 PM Post #5,421 of 10,167

jlbrach

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  As far as I'm concerned, they are not supposed to sound better as lot of people said.
 
Obviously, at the same level on the same amp, the 200ohm will sound lower than the 100 ohm. Period.  Again, It is obvious, and to me it is certainly not a better aspect. End of the story.

the LCD-4 needs ample power to fully appreciate it but if you have the power available you are in for a treat
 
Jan 31, 2017 at 10:20 PM Post #5,425 of 10,167

jlbrach

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  Are you saying the LCD-4 is best listened to at a LOUD volume?

obviously not....you can achieve loud volumes with an amp that isnt powerful enough to properly drive the LCD-4's....the LCD-4's require proper power to sound their best not to be loud
 
Jan 31, 2017 at 11:11 PM Post #5,427 of 10,167

Smazz

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Do explain your reasoning :rolleyes:


I have the Eddie Current 445 and Chord Dave, both can get the LCD-4 to loud volumes, but it starts to distort the music. They don't have the power to raise the volume and maintain crystal clear music. My neighbors Eddie Current Studio can get them to loud volumes, as can my Ampsandsound Mogwai, and maintain it without distorting
 
Feb 1, 2017 at 1:05 AM Post #5,428 of 10,167

Boerd

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I have the Eddie Current 445 and Chord Dave, both can get the LCD-4 to loud volumes, but it starts to distort the music. They don't have the power to raise the volume and maintain crystal clear music. My neighbors Eddie Current Studio can get them to loud volumes, as can my Ampsandsound Mogwai, and maintain it without distorting


​Do you even know what the loudness in db is for Dave driving the LCD-4 before it starts clipping? Answer: 113db and change (6.8Vrms into 200 ohms through a 0.005 ohms output impedance). Of course you can show some measurements with Dave distorting at normal levels (like 100 db) right? You do understand the LCD-4 needs 0.5 Vrms to play at 90 db, do you? http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudezeLCD4.pdf
Let me guess - you also need to use k$ cables soaked in snake oil so that the electrons slide faster and distort less - no measurements needed.
Don't let simple physics and measurements get in the way - give us some solid reasoning for your statements.
 
Feb 1, 2017 at 1:25 AM Post #5,429 of 10,167

Exidrion

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Exactly, I do not understand the reasoning behind more power = sounds better statements. Keywords being more power. I feel as though jibrach just said that because he read it somewhere here and echo'd it (like so many things here). I'm not claiming better amps do or don't I just want solid reasoning.
 
Feb 1, 2017 at 1:42 AM Post #5,430 of 10,167

Boerd

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Exactly, I do not understand the reasoning behind more power = sounds better statements. Keywords being more power. I feel as though jibrach just said that because he read it somewhere here and echo'd it (like so many things here). I'm not claiming better amps do or don't I just want solid reasoning.

 


More and more I get the feeling I am on a religious website. Even trivial formulas and measurements, keys in our progress are brushed aside. Ignoring what we already know makes no sense to me.
More powerful amplifiers when LCD-4 needs 4.5Vrms to get to 110db? Where is the logic?
I could understand something like: LCD-4 needs an amp with clean signal at 0.15Vrms or so where you get 80db - the normal listening level.
Let's say you need something that can put out 2Vrms so you have some headroom.
Mojo from Chord is already more powerful than needed (4.5 Vrms before clipping). To state that Chord Dave with 6.8Vrms before clipping cannot drive the LCD-4 is bananas.
 

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