Audeze LCD-4
Dec 25, 2016 at 3:41 PM Post #5,221 of 10,507

johnzz4

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I know nothing about the power out put on the Yggdrasil but the on Master 9 I turn the vol to 85 on some songs with ([COLOR=801D1D]M 9 has 9W / 40 ohms[/COLOR]).
So almost 50% of Master 9 power is being used with the LCD4.
lots of power!!


I use the Master 11 which is basically the Master 7 and Master 9 combined. I'm going g to be using the Master 11 as an amp, so basically exactly what you're using in the Master 9.. same power, etc. I'm just looking to try the Yggdrassil DAC feeding it rather than the built in DAC in the M11. I'm curious to see how the Yggy differs.
 
Dec 25, 2016 at 5:42 PM Post #5,223 of 10,507

Smazz

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My neighbor has the Yggy and M9 combo and we share gear with each other. We have both had time with the trio and it has good synergy and plenty of power. I would highly recommend running the M4 balanced though.
 
Dec 26, 2016 at 11:10 AM Post #5,224 of 10,507

johnzz4

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My neighbor has the Yggy and M9 combo and we share gear with each other. We have both had time with the trio and it has good synergy and plenty of power. I would highly recommend running the M4 balanced though.


Ya, that's the only way I run it. It really sounds great, but I'm hoping to prefer the Yggy presentation over the M7 I have baked into the M11. Should be interesting. Thanks Smazz.
 
Dec 27, 2016 at 10:17 AM Post #5,225 of 10,507

jrfmd

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has anyone tried driving the lcd-4 with a codex?
is it sufficiently powerful to get the best out of the lcd-4?
 
Sorry if it has been answered bu I cant find any answer by searching the forum for lcd4 and codex
 
thanks
Jeff
 
ps: the codex (in balanced mode only) is plenty strong enough for my HD800's
 
Dec 27, 2016 at 5:03 PM Post #5,226 of 10,507

Torq

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  has anyone tried driving the lcd-4 with a codex?
is it sufficiently powerful to get the best out of the lcd-4?
 
Sorry if it has been answered bu I cant find any answer by searching the forum for lcd4 and codex
 
thanks
Jeff
 
ps: the codex (in balanced mode only) is plenty strong enough for my HD800's


When I first auditioned the LCD-4, at my local dealer, the two best available in-store options to drive it were the McIntosh MHA-100 and the Ayre Codex.  Neither did a particularly convincing job and I nearly passed the LCD-4 over entirely as a result.
 
This was done using the single-ended outputs only (only cable they had on hand for the LCD-4), so can't say how the Codex would fair with a balanced connection.
 
The LCD-4 like a lot more power than the HD800 to sound their best though.  Can't say if the Codex can deliver that in balanced-mode, but it didn't do it for me in single-ended configuration.  I've heard the Codex in balanced-output, but only into another amplifier and not direct into headphones.  Some other, brief, thoughts of mine on it here
 
Dec 27, 2016 at 6:56 PM Post #5,231 of 10,507

jlbrach

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Can a Dave drive them ??
If they require more than the hd800 then II wouldn't be happy driving them with the codex--even balanced
Thanks

Jeff

Dave does a pretty good job of driving the LCD-4's.....I also use my Moon 430 with the LCD-4 which gives it a bit more grunt and a bit wider soundstage at the expense of a bit of transparency 
 
Dec 27, 2016 at 7:45 PM Post #5,232 of 10,507

x RELIC x

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I have the Dave, I use it purely as a DAC, in my opinion, the Dave's amp does not have enough power to drive the 4s to their potential

Jeff


I don't own the LCD-4 but I do own the DAVE. Just jumping in here to share my opinion on the matter (flame suit on).....

First of all I'll just mention that the DAVE (like all Chord DACs) doesn't have an amp section, it drives headphones from the DAC's line-out, full time, whether from the headphone out or RCA/XLR outputs. The differences in the output is digitally controlled to either lock the volume to 3Vrms in 'DAC mode', or allow variable output digitally in 'pre-amp mode'. Nothing more than that. Rob Watts can do this because of the discrete Pulse Array DAC and the code he runs on the FPGA chip produce an exceedingly clean sound with enough current and voltage output to be able to bypass a need for a seperate amp section in the DAVE for the sake of transparency. So the comments of the DAVE's amp not being powerful enough are completely off the mark in the sense that the DAVE really doesn't have an internal amp like conventional DAC/amps.

Here's the thing that's always been bothering me as I feel it perpetuates myths and false perceptions of what's going on. If using a piece of gear at listening levels that are loud enough, with enough headroom for the more dynamic passages, why would an external amp be any different for drive ability? If the volume has enough headroom for peak dynamics then the unused portion of the available volume range and unused power is inconsequential from an external amp. The only real differences I find when attaching my Liquid Gold to the DAVE are simply the flavour the amp adds. I don't find that it 'controls the drivers better', whatever that means. Think about it, if there is enough voltage and current for peak dynamics within the track for a given volume then the drivers don't care if there is more unused power from the amp. Now none of this is meant to debate the legitimacy of using an external amp from the DAVE when the headphones do require it, or the synergy one finds from an amp to the LCD-4. I just feel that most of the time on Head-Fi when someone says an external amp is required they aren't explaining the reasons why and just assume it's because an external amp has more power.

Again, I don't own the LCD-4 so I have no real say on the drive ability of the pairing. I'm really only bringing this up because I know there are some seasoned Head-Fi'ers who find the DAVE drives the LCD-4 just fine and enjoy the DAVE/LCD-4 pairing very much without an external amp. If there was a serious power mismatch then you simply wouldn't see these comments. I believe we are really talking about synergy and preferences rather than drive ability here. It's not just the DAVE/LCD-4 pairing where this comment comes up either. I see it all the time with the multiple pairings of various hardware with mutiple differing opinions.

Personally, I find that adding my Liquid Gold to the DAVE makes everything sound more similar. Sure, there's more bass impact and a wider soundstage but this is added to everything and with every track and with all my headphones (which are all well within the DAVE's drive ability). On the other hand, straight from the DAVE I find more variety in the recordings and more nuance within the music, there isn't the 'Liquid Gold filter' on everything. I like to use the Liquid Gold for the qualities it adds when I'm in the mood, but when I want to listen with the least colouration and transparency I hook up straight to the DAVE.

Let the comments fly! :)
 
Dec 27, 2016 at 8:00 PM Post #5,233 of 10,507

jlbrach

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I don't own the LCD-4 but I do own the DAVE. Just jumping in here to share my opinion on the matter (flame suit on).....

First of all I'll just mention that the DAVE (like all Chord DACs) doesn't have an amp section, it drives headphones from the DAC's line-out, full time, whether from the headphone out or RCA/XLR outputs. The differences in the output is digitally controlled to either lock the volume to 3Vrms in 'DAC mode', or allow variable output digitally in 'pre-amp mode'. Nothing more than that. Rob Watts can do this because of the discrete Pulse Array DAC and the code he runs on the FPGA chip produce an exceedingly clean sound with enough current and voltage output to be able to bypass a need for a seperate amp section in the DAVE for the sake of transparency. So the comments of the DAVE's amp not being powerful enough are completely off the mark in the sense that the DAVE really doesn't have an internal amp like conventional DAC/amps.

Here's the thing that's always been bothering me as I feel it perpetuates myths and false perceptions of what's going on. If using a piece of gear at listening levels that are loud enough, with enough headroom for the more dynamic passages, why would an external amp be any different for drive ability? If the volume has enough headroom for peak dynamics then the unused portion of the available volume range and unused power is inconsequential from an external amp. The only real differences I find when attaching my Liquid Gold to the DAVE are simply the flavour the amp adds. I don't find that it 'controls the drivers better', whatever that means. Think about it, if there is enough voltage and current for peak dynamics within the track for a given volume then the drivers don't care if there is more unused power from the amp. Now none of this is meant to debate the legitimacy of using an external amp from the DAVE when the headphones do require it, or the synergy one finds from an amp to the LCD-4. I just feel that most of the time on Head-Fi when someone says an external amp is required they aren't explaining the reasons why and just assume it's because an external amp has more power.

Again, I don't own the LCD-4 so I have no real say on the drive ability of the pairing. I'm really only bringing this up because I know there are some seasoned Head-Fi'ers who find the DAVE drives the LCD-4 just fine and enjoy the DAVE/LCD-4 pairing very much without an external amp. If there was a serious power mismatch then you simply wouldn't see these comments. I believe we are really talking about synergy and preferences rather than drive ability here. It's not just the DAVE/LCD-4 pairing where this comment comes up either. I see it all the time with the multiple pairings of various hardware with mutiple differing opinions.

Personally, I find that adding my Liquid Gold to the DAVE makes everything sound more similar. Sure, there's more bass impact and a wider soundstage but this is added to everything and with every track and with all my headphones (which are all well within the DAVE's drive ability). On the other hand, straight from the DAVE I find more variety in the recordings and more nuance within the music, there isn't the 'Liquid Gold filter' on everything. I like to use the Liquid Gold for the qualities it adds when I'm in the mood, but when I want to listen with the least colouration and transparency I hook up straight to the DAVE.

Let the comments fly!
smily_headphones1.gif

I concur completely,I find Dave drives my LCD-4 quite well and my Utopia with ease....I do have to push the volume about 20 louder with the LCD-4s than the Utopia but i do not find I NEED my Moon 430 but there are times and recording where I enjoy the combination.It makes sense to me that if one can go straight from the Dave that pretty much has to be best...perhaps with the HE-6's which I have not yet heard one would need an external amp but otherwise I do think the Dave is more than capable of driving most anything.I have owned pretty much all of the premium HP's and the most difficult to drive thus far has been the LCD-4
 
Dec 27, 2016 at 8:10 PM Post #5,234 of 10,507

JaZZ

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Quick second comment: brilliant explanation, I can't help but agree on everything.
 
I've just tried the LCD-4 with the Hugo, and it had more than enough power reseves to my ears. But my mini-review with the mention of a rather shallow soundstage has been broadly rejected because «the Hugo can't drive it properly». Now I don't exclude some beneficial effects from additional amping in the form of, say, quicker power supply for dynamic peaks, but higher signal accuracy in the dynamics domain as the effective cause seems rather unlikely to me, the more so as the Hugo's volume settings weren't anywhere near peak power – so it should also happen while listening to the HE1000. I'd rather attribute it to a welcome warming with additional «authority» thanks to some subtle euphonic distortion.
 
I've tried to get an answer from Rob as to the benefit from particularly quick or strong power supplies (e.g. super caps as in the TT)  in some of my previous posts, but he may have overlooked it. In any event – if there's indeed something to gain from additional amplification when it comes to power peaks, I don't think it would outweigh the loss of transparency for my own sonic ideal.
 
Dec 27, 2016 at 8:17 PM Post #5,235 of 10,507

Smazz

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I don't own the LCD-4 but I do own the DAVE. Just jumping in here to share my opinion on the matter (flame suit on).....

First of all I'll just mention that the DAVE (like all Chord DACs) doesn't have an amp section, it drives headphones from the DAC's line-out, full time, whether from the headphone out or RCA/XLR outputs. The differences in the output is digitally controlled to either lock the volume to 3Vrms in 'DAC mode', or allow variable output digitally in 'pre-amp mode'. Nothing more than that. Rob Watts can do this because of the discrete Pulse Array DAC and the code he runs on the FPGA chip produce an exceedingly clean sound with enough current and voltage output to be able to bypass a need for a seperate amp section in the DAVE for the sake of transparency. So the comments of the DAVE's amp not being powerful enough are completely off the mark in the sense that the DAVE really doesn't have an internal amp like conventional DAC/amps.

Here's the thing that's always been bothering me as I feel it perpetuates myths and false perceptions of what's going on. If using a piece of gear at listening levels that are loud enough, with enough headroom for the more dynamic passages, why would an external amp be any different for drive ability? If the volume has enough headroom for peak dynamics then the unused portion of the available volume range and unused power is inconsequential from an external amp. The only real differences I find when attaching my Liquid Gold to the DAVE are simply the flavour the amp adds. I don't find that it 'controls the drivers better', whatever that means. Think about it, if there is enough voltage and current for peak dynamics within the track for a given volume then the drivers don't care if there is more unused power from the amp. Now none of this is meant to debate the legitimacy of using an external amp from the DAVE when the headphones do require it, or the synergy one finds from an amp to the LCD-4. I just feel that most of the time on Head-Fi when someone says an external amp is required they aren't explaining the reasons why and just assume it's because an external amp has more power.

Again, I don't own the LCD-4 so I have no real say on the drive ability of the pairing. I'm really only bringing this up because I know there are some seasoned Head-Fi'ers who find the DAVE drives the LCD-4 just fine and enjoy the DAVE/LCD-4 pairing very much without an external amp. If there was a serious power mismatch then you simply wouldn't see these comments. I believe we are really talking about synergy and preferences rather than drive ability here. It's not just the DAVE/LCD-4 pairing where this comment comes up either. I see it all the time with the multiple pairings of various hardware with mutiple differing opinions.

Personally, I find that adding my Liquid Gold to the DAVE makes everything sound more similar. Sure, there's more bass impact and a wider soundstage but this is added to everything and with every track and with all my headphones (which are all well within the DAVE's drive ability). On the other hand, straight from the DAVE I find more variety in the recordings and more nuance within the music, there isn't the 'Liquid Gold filter' on everything. I like to use the Liquid Gold for the qualities it adds when I'm in the mood, but when I want to listen with the least colouration and transparency I hook up straight to the DAVE.

Let the comments fly!
smily_headphones1.gif


I might be one of the exceptions, but I enjoy listening to my music at higher volumes. To get the sound to the volume I enjoy, the Dave will start clipping and distorting. I have taken my my rig to multiple meets, and others at those meets have come to a similar conclusion. Not everyone mind you. Just my two cents, some will find the synergy just right, others will find it lacking as they turn up the volume. 
 

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