Audeze LCD-2C Classic - Impressions Thread
May 12, 2019 at 11:12 AM Post #5,116 of 7,331
Glad that it worked for you. In the end, we should listen to what we enjoy, right? Regardless of what people think.

Well it's the oddities of this hobby and human hearing.

I have no intention to start a debate, but I think some of the statements about bass needs clarification.

How on Earth do you feel 5 Hz bass from a pair of headphones? Please elaborate on this.
The bass on the X2 heavily rolls off below 50Hz. 2C has a flat bass until 20Hz.

There is a bass elevation on the X2 between 50-100Hz. I think this might be what you 'feel'.

Did I mention my attention span? ^^ Sorry, I was thinking of a song That does indeed have 5Hz in it, only when played loud can you actually feel it. I was gonna mention rumble at 20-30Hz , I think because of that elevation on the X2 you can still feel the rumble so low and so well, that or it is just loose and I like it better. :D
 
May 12, 2019 at 11:17 AM Post #5,117 of 7,331
Well it's the oddities of this hobby and human hearing.



Did I mention my attention span? ^^ Sorry, I was thinking of a song That does indeed have 5Hz in it, only when played loud can you actually feel it. I was gonna mention rumble at 20-30Hz , I think because of that elevation on the X2 you can still feel the rumble so low and so well, that or it is just loose and I like it better. :D
That's fine, but 5 Hz is inaudible for human beings and even if it was, only some TOTL planar headphones are able to reproduce that frequency. The X2 and even the 2C are not amongst them.
There is nothing elevated on the X2 below 50Hz. it is pretty much dead below 50Hz. The elevation is between 50-100Hz.
 
May 12, 2019 at 11:28 AM Post #5,118 of 7,331
That's fine, but 5 Hz is inaudible for human beings and even if it was, only some TOTL planar headphones are able to reproduce that frequency. The X2 and even the 2C are not amongst them.
There is nothing elevated on the X2 below 50Hz. it is pretty much dead below 50Hz. The elevation is between 50-100Hz.

5Hz, yes most certainly only can my speakers shake the room at quite loud levels, other than that it is inaudible.

I just did a frequency sweep for a sanity check, X2 is trying to play 5Hz up to 15. 20 where it starts to do something and 25 rumbles. What I also wanted to mention is that 2C has quite sizeable drivers and they require quite the power to get them to move, so it might be that my listening level is more favourable towards the X2 driver as it is much smaller and easier to drive in comparison.
 
May 12, 2019 at 2:59 PM Post #5,120 of 7,331
Did someone hear difference between balanced and unbalanced connection? Plan to buy balanced amp.
There are good balanced amps and there are good single ended amps. There are also bad balanced amps and bad single ended amps.
In general under $500 it is usually better to go with unbalanced. The cheap balanced solutions are usually worse than unbalanced and most of the time they are not even truly balanced.
Between $500-2000 balanced is better in general (more power, more clarity). Above $2000 it does not matter at all. A well-implemented single ended output is equally good to balanced.

The difference people hear are down to the difference between amps or implementations, not the actual type of the output.
"Balanced = better sound" is one of the most hyped misconception of this hobby these days.
 
May 13, 2019 at 11:00 AM Post #5,121 of 7,331
Have to mention this, but I think my 2C has been put on the side by an unlikely of headphones. ^^

After I got the RME ADI-2 DAC, I brought out most of my headphones and messed around with them. In combination with my Oppo HA-1 and directly from the RME, just tried everything. For a while I was swapping and EQ-ing depending on what I was listening to and what I was doing in general... It took some time, but I started to default only to one of my headphones. A lot to do with comfort, but also I noticed that it is the only headphone I have that doesn't actually do anything that bad or off. For me anyway. The Philips Fidelio X2. Originally I replaced them pretty quickly as they sounded muffled with a whole bunch of slow, bloated and muddy bass... However as it turns out if you burn them in and combine them with good gear, all that goes away and you get a surprisingly good headphone. :D

I miss my X2's dearly, and I think you've nailed the sound: "surprisingly good" sums it up very well. I've also found that they scale up pretty well with better gear. Listening to them for the first time on my 28.38, it was startling how much they improved. It was the aural equivalent of putting on my glasses in the morning, everything was just so much cleaner and better defined in an immediately noticeable way. While I'm not going to lapse into that silly cliche that "they compete with headphones 3-4 times their price," I will say that they still earned head-time despite being in a collection alongside headphones 3-4 (and more) times their price.

I've always been curious about an upgrade to the X2 and thought maybe the 2C would be it. In terms of sound, is the 2C an improved version of the X2?

EDIT: By the way, the Atticus has been an excellent 'Super-X2' so far.
 
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May 13, 2019 at 12:28 PM Post #5,122 of 7,331
I miss my X2's dearly, and I think you've nailed the sound: "surprisingly good" sums it up very well. I've also found that they scale up pretty well with better gear. Listening to them for the first time on my 28.38, it was startling how much they improved. It was the aural equivalent of putting on my glasses in the morning, everything was just so much cleaner and better defined in an immediately noticeable way. While I'm not going to lapse into that silly cliche that "they compete with headphones 3-4 times their price," I will say that they still earned head-time despite being in a collection alongside headphones 3-4 (and more) times their price.

I've always been curious about an upgrade to the X2 and thought maybe the 2C would be it. In terms of sound, is the 2C an improved version of the X2?

EDIT: By the way, the Atticus has been an excellent 'Super-X2' so far.

They do things differently if you ask me in terms of sound signature. SQ and technicality 2C obviously betas X2 any day.
 
May 13, 2019 at 9:47 PM Post #5,123 of 7,331
5Hz, yes most certainly only can my speakers shake the room at quite loud levels, other than that it is inaudible.

I just did a frequency sweep for a sanity check, X2 is trying to play 5Hz up to 15. 20 where it starts to do something and 25 rumbles. What I also wanted to mention is that 2C has quite sizeable drivers and they require quite the power to get them to move, so it might be that my listening level is more favourable towards the X2 driver as it is much smaller and easier to drive in comparison.
I have a test CD with steady state single tone frequencies. 4hz, 8hz, 16hz, 20hz, 25hz, 32hz, 40hz. Each frequency plays for 20secs., then goes to the next highest frequency for 20secs.
Using my Schiit magni3, I started the cd at 4hz. and played all the frequencies through 40hz.

I couldn't hear anything until 20hz, and I could just barely hear it.
This was true for both the lcd2c and the FIDELIO x2.

betula is correct that the x2 is elevated between about 50hz to 100hz., which does make the bass more present on the x2. According to inner fidelity's graphs, the bass on both headphones is the same level at 40hz., From 40hz. down to 20hz., the fideliox2 continues to roll off relative to the lcd2c, which continues without rolling off down to 20hz.

I'm curious to know what recording has 5hz. I'm also curious to know any recordings that have 20 Hz at an elevated level. If a recording has a 20hz tone recorded at the same level as the rest of the bass frequencies, I doubt I would hear it on the x2, since the other bass frequencies would drown it out or mask it.. This might even be the case on the lcd2c, since I perceive the frequencies above 20hz. to be louder when recorded at the same level.
 
May 13, 2019 at 9:56 PM Post #5,124 of 7,331
I miss my X2's dearly, and I think you've nailed the sound: "surprisingly good" sums it up very well. I've also found that they scale up pretty well with better gear. Listening to them for the first time on my 28.38, it was startling how much they improved. It was the aural equivalent of putting on my glasses in the morning, everything was just so much cleaner and better defined in an immediately noticeable way. While I'm not going to lapse into that silly cliche that "they compete with headphones 3-4 times their price," I will say that they still earned head-time despite being in a collection alongside headphones 3-4 (and more) times their price.

I've always been curious about an upgrade to the X2 and thought maybe the 2C would be it. In terms of sound, is the 2C an improved version of the X2?

EDIT: By the way, the Atticus has been an excellent 'Super-X2' so far.
I don't think of the x2 as an upgrade to the lcd2c. That doesn't mean I don't like the x2.
It's just that to me, they don't sound much like each other.
 
May 13, 2019 at 10:03 PM Post #5,125 of 7,331
I don't think of the x2 as an upgrade to the lcd2c. That doesn't mean I don't like the x2.
It's just that to me, they don't sound much like each other.
Sorry in this post I meant to say I don't think of the lcd2c as an upgrade to the fideliox2 . Because they sound too different to me.
Technically the lcd2c is an upgrade but it doesn't sound like the x2.
 
May 14, 2019 at 1:00 PM Post #5,126 of 7,331
I have a test CD with steady state single tone frequencies. 4hz, 8hz, 16hz, 20hz, 25hz, 32hz, 40hz. Each frequency plays for 20secs., then goes to the next highest frequency for 20secs.
Using my Schiit magni3, I started the cd at 4hz. and played all the frequencies through 40hz.

I couldn't hear anything until 20hz, and I could just barely hear it.
This was true for both the lcd2c and the FIDELIO x2.

betula is correct that the x2 is elevated between about 50hz to 100hz., which does make the bass more present on the x2. According to inner fidelity's graphs, the bass on both headphones is the same level at 40hz., From 40hz. down to 20hz., the fideliox2 continues to roll off relative to the lcd2c, which continues without rolling off down to 20hz.

I'm curious to know what recording has 5hz. I'm also curious to know any recordings that have 20 Hz at an elevated level. If a recording has a 20hz tone recorded at the same level as the rest of the bass frequencies, I doubt I would hear it on the x2, since the other bass frequencies would drown it out or mask it.. This might even be the case on the lcd2c, since I perceive the frequencies above 20hz. to be louder when recorded at the same level.

Well yeah, you can't hear anything until 20Hz, albeit I would argue that I do hear things, but that is mostly the driver struggling. That or I have extremely good hearing. :D In any case, it doesn't really matter, could be anything...

As for the song, there are plenty of "test" songs among other experimental things that do low frequencies, one that I got distracted by while I was trying not to jumble my already jumbled sentences was "Bassotronics - Bass I Love You". I remember a chat about it having really low frequencies, I remember it being 5Hz and my RME would indicate that is does indeed have something below 20Hz, among a lot of other low frequencies as far as I am concerned.
 
May 15, 2019 at 12:15 AM Post #5,127 of 7,331
Well yeah, you can't hear anything until 20Hz, albeit I would argue that I do hear things, but that is mostly the driver struggling. That or I have extremely good hearing. :D In any case, it doesn't really matter, could be anything...

As for the song, there are plenty of "test" songs among other experimental things that do low frequencies, one that I got distracted by while I was trying not to jumble my already jumbled sentences was "Bassotronics - Bass I Love You". I remember a chat about it having really low frequencies, I remember it being 5Hz and my RME would indicate that is does indeed have something below 20Hz, among a lot of other low frequencies as far as I am concerned.
Yes, I have heard some bass test recordings. I don't know if I've heard that one. I'll check it out. Thanks.
 
May 15, 2019 at 2:43 AM Post #5,128 of 7,331
Did anyone hook into the Project Ember 2 with 2C ? I just wonder if it would be too warm/smeared imaging with that set-up ?
I may go back to 2C if I like Sony MDR-Z7s...one open/one closed...loved that mellow upper end for long-term listening.
 
May 15, 2019 at 7:27 AM Post #5,129 of 7,331
Above $2000 it does not matter at all. A well-implemented single ended output is equally good to balanced.

The difference people hear are down to the difference between amps or implementations, not the actual type of the output.
"Balanced = better sound" is one of the most hyped misconception of this hobby these days.

Well the Rag isn't quite $2k, but it's liable to be one of the more common amps used for these cans. Balanced puts out 4x (watts, not db) more power than SE on the Rag. Also with much lower impedance. Every can I've had through here since I got the Rag in 2016 has been tested SE vs XLR. 2 didn't change that much: Fostex FH500RP, MD 4XX. 1 a bit more: Senn HD-600, 6 others changed a great deal for the better (HE-500, HE-6, HE5-LE, HEX v2, MD X00 Mahogany, LCD2c.

So, in those cases, there is no hype or misrepresentation - based on my perception. There are certainly cases where XLR plugs are added but the circuitry does not support it. I had the Bryston on loan, and it wasn't clear which was better. So that's a point in your favor. I think people about to make such a large purchase should do the research, listen - then make a choice, and not rely on hype or subjective impressions of others.
 
May 15, 2019 at 7:37 AM Post #5,130 of 7,331
Well the Rag isn't quite $2k, but it's liable to be one of the more common amps used for these cans. Balanced puts out 4x (watts, not db) more power than SE on the Rag. Also with much lower impedance. Every can I've had through here since I got the Rag in 2016 has been tested SE vs XLR. 2 didn't change that much: Fostex FH500RP, MD 4XX. 1 a bit more: Senn HD-600, 6 others changed a great deal for the better (HE-500, HE-6, HE5-LE, HEX v2, MD X00 Mahogany, LCD2c.

So, in those cases, there is no hype or misrepresentation - based on my perception. There are certainly cases where XLR plugs are added but the circuitry does not support it. I had the Bryston on loan, and it wasn't clear which was better. So that's a point in your favor. I think people about to make such a large purchase should do the research, listen - then make a choice, and not rely on hype or subjective impressions of others.
I think we are on the same page here.
 

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