[ShamuellJackson]

I'm starting to get real curious but anyone can comment on the sound difference between the 2C and the LCD-X? I see the X for some good prices from time to time on my local CL and Offerup/Letgo and I am real tempted to get a pair.

 

[gearofwar]

I'm starting to get real curious but anyone can comment on the sound difference between the 2C and the LCD-X? I see the X for some good prices from time to time on my local CL and Offerup/Letgo and I am real tempted to get a pair.

Something you should be more concerned is that the X is more heavier than the 3 plus not using the new headband.

 

[colinallcarz]

Is the cable that comes with it the regular flat Audeze cable and connectors that comes with the older LCD-2 and the rest of the line?

 

[YtseJamer]

I have finally received my LCD-2C and thank god, they don't sound dull, grainy and non-engaging like all the LDC-2 Fazor that I have heard in the last 2-3 years. The comfort is much improved because of the new headband and the sound quality is like a typical 'old school' Audeze LCD-2.

Overall, the LCD-2C classic is a fantastic heaphones and a steal for $599!

 

[eyoon]

Is the cable that comes with it the regular flat Audeze cable and connectors that comes with the older LCD-2 and the rest of the line?

Nope. The LCD2C comes with a braided cable

 

[anoxy]

I've been thoroughly enjoying Currents by Tame Impala again with these. I hadn't listened to Tame Impala in a couple years. Any fans here?

 

[marcan]

actuallyI read here and there that the LCD2 is not neutral especially compare to the Focal Clear or the HD800. Or those are technically better than the LCD2.
I beg to differ. subjectively I think the LCD2 with a very good amp (balanced gets the best result for me) isn't that far from neutrality and probably more neutral than the Clear or the HD800. I would say those are hyped in the trebles. People tend to believe that more trebles is more neutral which is not true, I don't even talk about the listening fatigue.
Now let's take a look at it objectively. First absolute neutrality doesn't exist in the real world. For me neutrality is a not compensated frequency response as flat as possible with a low distortion.
So if you look at the graphs we can see that the frequency response on the LCD2 is damn flat from 5hz to 1khz Which means more than seven octaves nearly perfectly flat. So we can say that the LCD2 probably have the most neutral bass response on the market nowadays. If we look higher, there are up and down but the curve is not far from flat till 10k. In the hand the Clear and the HD800 have a big bump between 2k and 8k, not very neutral. Moreover this is the more sensitive part where you have the presence but also the aggressivity. Which lead to listening fatigue. So the Clear or the HD800 maybe more impressive at first sight but it might lead to a shorter music enjoyment.
Now let see at the other graphs (phase, square, distortion, impulse). Phase on the LCD2 is perfect, the others are not. Square at 30 is better on the LCD2. For the distortion the LCD2 has a remarquable clean bass especially at 100db. on the rest of the spectrum the distortion is very low and often better that the other 2. Square at 300 is cleaner on the LCD2.
So why people continue to pretend that the LCD2 is not neutral or technically inferior when it's the contrary.
Here are the graphs (I took the LCD2rev2 because the LCD2C isn't on Innerfidelity yet and the LCD2C seems to be very close to the LCD2rev2).
LCD2rev2
Focal Clear
HD800

So it may be a question of taste but not neutrality.

 

[franz12]

actuallyI read here and there that the LCD2 is not neutral especially compare to the Focal Clear or the HD800. Or those are technically better than the LCD2.
I beg to differ. subjectively I think the LCD2 with a very good amp (balanced gets the best result for me) isn't that far from neutrality and probably more neutral than the Clear or the HD800. I would say those are hyped in the trebles. People tend to believe that more trebles is more neutral which is not true, I don't even talk about the listening fatigue.
Now let's take a look at it objectively. First absolute neutrality doesn't exist in the real world. For me neutrality is a not compensated frequency response as flat as possible with a low distortion.
So if you look at the graphs we can see that the frequency response on the LCD2 is damn flat from 5hz to 1khz Which means more than seven octaves nearly perfectly flat. So we can say that the LCD2 probably have the most neutral bass response on the market nowadays. If we look higher, there are up and down but the curve is not far from flat till 10k. In the hand the Clear and the HD800 have a big bump between 2k and 8k, not very neutral. Moreover this is the more sensitive part where you have the presence but also the aggressivity. Which lead to listening fatigue. So the Clear or the HD800 maybe more impressive at first sight but it might lead to a shorter music enjoyment.
Now let see at the other graphs (phase, square, distortion, impulse). Phase on the LCD2 is perfect, the others are not. Square at 30 is better on the LCD2. For the distortion the LCD2 has a remarquable clean bass especially at 100db. on the rest of the spectrum the distortion is very low and often better that the other 2. Square at 300 is cleaner on the LCD2.
So why people continue to pretend that the LCD2 is not neutral or technically inferior when it's the contrary.
Here are the graphs (I took the LCD2rev2 because the LCD2C isn't on Innerfidelity yet and the LCD2C seems to be very close to the LCD2rev2).
LCD2rev2
Focal Clear
HD800

So it may be a question of taste but not neutrality.

You have to compare lcd2 to lcd4 when it comes to neutrality

Lcd2 is non-neutral compared to flagships period. There are lcd3 and lcd4 which compete clear and hd800 for neutrality.

 

[marcan]

You have to compare lcd2 to lcd4 when it comes to neutrality

Lcd2 is non-neutral compared to flagships period. There are lcd3 and lcd4 which compete clear and hd800 for neutrality.

What leads you to believe that the hd800 or the Clear are more neutral to than the LCD2 when those are clearly hyped in the mid/trebles and aren't flat below 1k like the LCD2?

 

[givemetacos]

For me neutrality is a not compensated frequency response as flat as possible with a low distortion.

As an electrical engineer/neuroscientist that has studied human perception to auditory cues the above statement is scientifically unfounded and dangerous to promote in the headphone community. You might be perhaps transferring your ideas of loud speaker measurements to headphone measurements, in which that case a flat, not compensated (raw) frequency response is deemed neutral. But this is absolutely not the case with headphones due to ear resonances. Please watch Tyll's Finding Flat video for a basic understanding of how those ear resonances and acoustic properties affect headphone measurements and why a headphone's uncompensated (raw) frequency response SHOULD NOT measure flat as possible. Here is a link to Tyll's innerfidelity written explanation about headphone frequency response measurements and how to interpret them correctly.

 

[astrostar59]

Can I ask, what is the sound quality drop from the current LCD-2 and the current LCD Classic? Why is it cheaper?

 

[marcan]

As an electrical engineer/neuroscientist that has studied human perception to auditory cues the above statement is scientifically unfounded and dangerous to promote in the headphone community. You might be perhaps transferring your ideas of loud speaker measurements to headphone measurements, in which that case a flat, not compensated (raw) frequency response is deemed neutral. But this is absolutely not the case with headphones due to ear resonances. Please watch Tyll's Finding Flat video for a basic understanding of how those ear resonances and acoustic properties affect headphone measurements and why a headphone's uncompensated (raw) frequency response SHOULD NOT measure flat as possible. Here is a link to Tyll's innerfidelity written explanation about headphone frequency response measurements and how to interpret them correctly.

I don't buy the compensation curve thing neither Tyll..

Actually if you read carefully Tyll conclusions on you link, you will see that it can't be done and finally that the compensation curve is not very relevant for him:
"The top plot is the averaged raw responses compensated by the Independent of Direction compensating curve that came with my measurement head. Over time I've come to look much more at the raw, uncompensated curves than the compensated plot, primarily because I know the ID (or DF or FF) compensation curves are not quite correct."

One of the assumption of Tyll is that good headphones should sound like good loudspeakers because music has been produced on loudspeakers. I don't feel the same way. I consider that headphone is now a reference in itself and engineers takes it into account. For example it's practically impossible to have the nearly perfect bass reproduction we can have nowadays with a well amped LCD2. You can buy the best speakers on earth and work hard your room but won't get a flat response down to 5hz with a THD below 0.1% at 100dB, and no resonance.
I don't even talk about a flat phase response (on the LCD2 again) that no speaker on earth is able deliver for electrical and acoustical reasons. For me phase inconsistencies on loudspeakers was one of the reason I stopped using them... So why take as a reference something less transparent.
And why bass sound so well and natural on the LCD2: because it's damn flat, so it has some grounds that a flat response is rather fine. Now one can argue that ear resonance are more in the upper range, but loudspeakers and headphones use the same canal...

 

[givemetacos]

I don't buy the compensation curve thing neither Tyll..

Actually if you read carefully Tyll conclusions on you link, you will see that it can't be done and finally that the compensation curve is not very relevant for him:
"The top plot is the averaged raw responses compensated by the Independent of Direction compensating curve that came with my measurement head. Over time I've come to look much more at the raw, uncompensated curves than the compensated plot, primarily because I know the ID (or DF or FF) compensation curves are not quite correct."

One of the assumption of Tyll is that good headphones should sound like good loudspeakers because music has been produced on loudspeakers. I don't think so. For me the headphone is now a reference in itself and engineers takes it into account. For example it's practically impossible to have the nearly perfect bass reproduction we can have nowadays with a well amped LCD2. You can buy the best speakers on earth and work hard your room but won't get a flat response down to 5hz with a THD below 0.1% at 100dB, and no resonance.
I don't even talk about a flat phase response (on the LCD2 again) that no speaker on earth is able deliver for electrical and acoustical reasons. For me phase inconsistencies on loudspeakers was one of the reason I stopped using them... So why take as a reference something less transparent.
And why bass sound so well and natural on the LCD2: because it's damn flat, so it has some grounds that a flat response is rather fine. Now one can argue that ear resonance are more in the upper range, but loudspeakers and headphones use the same canal...

That is totally fine if you don't like a chosen compensation curve, that is incredibly subjective and not understood well. But if you believe that headphones drivers should measure flat particularly in the mid to treble regions where we know ear resonances and biological ear shape differences affect the frequency response, you are incorrect. Headphone companies know this to be true and specifically tune it that way. If they specifically tuned it to be flat in those frequencies you would think it sounds weird.

The reason loud speakers are different is because when you are in a room the music from both speakers is bouncing around the entire room as well as your head, ears and torso and music from each speaker enters both your ears together. There are no cup reflections happening. With headphones, you are limiting sound from each channel to directly enter just 1 ear and you are dealing with all the resonances from the driver emitting sound both directly forward into your ear as well as the sound permeating out the back side. It is a completely different method of pushing sound wave to your ears than what is happening in loud speakers.

Now I actually agree with you on the bass response because that is no the area that ear resonances make a huge difference. So I also agree that the LCD series probably has the most "neutral" and best quality bass you can get in a headphone. And I also agree that "neutral" means different things to different people. So that is fine if LCD-2 is the most neutral headphone to you. Just don't claim to others that any headphone SHOULD measure flat in raw frequency response in the mids/treble to be neutral. That is false.

 

[marcan]

That is totally fine if you don't like a chosen compensation curve, that is incredibly subjective and not understood well. But if you believe that headphones drivers should measure flat particularly in the mid to treble regions where we know ear resonances and biological ear shape differences affect the frequency response, you are incorrect. Headphone companies know this to be true and specifically tune it that way. If they specifically tuned it to be flat in those frequencies you would think it sounds weird.

The reason loud speakers are different is because when you are in a room the music from both speakers is bouncing around the entire room as well as your head, ears and torso and music from each speaker enters both your ears together. There are no cup reflections happening. With headphones, you are limiting sound from each channel to directly enter just 1 ear and you are dealing with all the resonances from the driver emitting sound both directly forward into your ear as well as the sound permeating out the back side. It is a completely different method of pushing sound wave to your ears than what is happening in loud speakers.

Now I actually agree with you on the bass response because that is no the area that ear resonances make a huge difference. So I also agree that the LCD series probably has the most "neutral" and best quality bass you can get in a headphone. And I also agree that "neutral" means different things to different people. So that is fine if LCD-2 is the most neutral headphone to you. Just don't claim to others that any headphone SHOULD measure flat in raw frequency response in the mids/treble to be neutral. That is false.

We can discuss about which curve is more neutral and we will both came to the conclusion that it is objectively impossible. My point actually was more that people tend believe that a brighter presentation is more neutral while it is in fact the contrary (coloration). And when I compared the LCD2 with the HD800, the LCD2 sounded more "neutral" to my ears while the HD800 was mid/treble hyped.
I think we can agree that the listening level (which is often linked to the type of music) will be important in the frequency response that you will looking for. Here the Fletcher-Munson curve will play a role. If your are on the loud side you will probably get the LCD. Actually rock, electronic, all these kind of modern music are done to be played loud. That's why the bass has often an important role there, it will help your ear compress the sound.
Cheers,

 

[givemetacos]

We can discuss about which curve is more neutral and we will both came to the conclusion that it is objectively impossible. My point actually was more that people tend believe that a brighter presentation is more neutral while it is in fact the contrary (coloration). And when I compared the LCD2 with the HD800, the LCD2 sounded more "neutral" to my ears while the HD800 was mid/treble hyped.
I think we can agree that the listening level (which is often linked to the type of music) will be important in the frequency response that you will looking for. Here the Fletcher-Munson curve will play a role. If your are on the loud side you will probably get the LCD. Actually rock, electronic, all these kind of modern music are done to be played loud. That's why the bass has often an important role there, it will help your ear compress the sound.
Cheers,

Like I said before, I completely agree that there is debate about what a "neutral" curve is and I have no issues with people declaring LCD-2 more neutral than HD800. That is all subjective listening and preferences. And I have no complaints about people not wanting to consider compensation curves as there is no objective truth to them. The only point that I wanted to clarify was that when looking at raw, uncompensated frequency response, particularly in the mids/treble, the curve should absolutely not be flat or else the headphone will sound broken. This isn't a preference or subjective opinion, this is pure science and biology. I just want to make sure you or anyone else following this thread understand why there is always that bump around 3-4kHz when looking at raw measurements.