[marcan]

Actually if you look at the raw frequency response of the hd800 you will see that it is overhyped from 2khz to 10khz.
I mentioned raw because as said Tyll Hertsens, who made the measurements: "Over time I've come to look much more at the raw, uncompensated curves than the compensated plot, primarily because I know the ID (or DF or FF) compensation curves are not quite correct."
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800.pdf

 

[bassboysam]

some people enjoy "neutrality" because they want to hear the recording as pristine and uncolored as possible. Not always possible, but it's still an approximation to what the artists intended the recording to be perceived as. To each his own. Sure, HPs are colored, to some degree. And they perform well with specific genres, probably because they are each colored in ways that so happen to bring peak enjoyment to the listener with certain generes, and not with others. Coloration isn't bad, it's just not always suitable for mood changes and specific application, like mixing and mastering in a studio (pro or amateur).

cheers

i did acknowledge that there's a need/use for neutrality but it doesn't need to be the only objective as many people on head-fi believe.

neutral headphones won't let you hear the music the way the artist heard it. you'd need to use the same headphone/speakers the artists used during mastering to achieve that. if the album was mastered with a pair of M5Os then no Audeze will let you hear what the artist heard.

 

[MrD]

  In a nutshell, what's the main difference in SQ between LCD-2.2 pre-fazor and the LCD fazors, closed-back only.

 
Thanks for this summary of my post, assuming that's what it's intended as, couldn't help giving my life story along with it. Specifically, I was seeking to compare against Sennheiser HD580/600 as a reference point, agreed the rest is irrelevant.
 
To clarify, I want the classic LCD-2 bass flatness/extension, or something almost indistinguishably close to it, and as much extra openness in the treble over the Senns as is possible without sacrificing midrange clarity - which, as I probably should've realised, seems to be asking the impossible.
 

  LCD 2F have a lot of treble, too much for me as i had to use software eq. Check the frequency response graph and compare

 
I can't find much data on the Fazors, there are a couple of pre-drawn graphs on InnerFidelity but they're small and overly cluttered, though I agree you can make out significantly more treble activity. And as a total layman I find frequently response curves for headphones are quite unintuitive to interpret, especially given the inevitable variability in the treble regions regardless of whether or how compensation is applied.
 
But your post and subsequently testimonials demonstrate that the 2Fs are more radically different from the 2.2s than I'd anticipated. Presumably then this extra brightness means the HD580/600s provide more perceived bass (ignoring the Senns' bottom-octave rolloff)? In which case, out of the LCDs regarded as having the original house sound (2.1/2.2/3), which has the most prominent high-end?

 

[CanadianMaestro]

neutral headphones won't let you hear the music the way the artist heard it. you'd need to use the same headphone/speakers the artists used during mastering to achieve that. if the album was mastered with a pair of M5Os then no Audeze will let you hear what the artist heard.

neutral =  output/input approaches 1.0
assuming the artist was satisfied with the commercially-released recording, then that recording (CD, vinyl or whatever) would be considered "neutral" if played back on a system with O/I = 1.0 .  When engineers design amps and sources (even speakers), they designate neutrality as simply that -- output signal = input signal. No need to use the same gear as the studio recording engineers/artists.

 

[Lohb]

I can't find much data on the Fazors, there are a couple of pre-drawn graphs on InnerFidelity but they're small and overly cluttered, though I agree you can make out significantly more treble activity. And as a total layman I find frequently response curves for headphones are quite unintuitive to interpret, especially given the inevitable variability in the treble regions regardless of whether or how compensation is applied.  
 

Search images top-right of this thread will pull up various members' 2-F version FR graphs. If I remember, some were posted in the last few months.

 

[Alexalder]

I can't find much data on the Fazors, there are a couple of pre-drawn graphs on InnerFidelity but they're small and overly cluttered, though I agree you can make out significantly more treble activity. And as a total layman I find frequently response curves for headphones are quite unintuitive to interpret, especially given the inevitable variability in the treble regions regardless of whether or how compensation is applied.
 
But your post and subsequently testimonials demonstrate that the 2Fs are more radically different from the 2.2s than I'd anticipated. Presumably then this extra brightness means the HD580/600s provide more perceived bass (ignoring the Senns' bottom-octave rolloff)? In which case, out of the LCDs regarded as having the original house sound (2.1/2.2/3), which has the most prominent high-end?

You'll find a LOT of graphs in this thread.
And no, HD600 are nothing like LCD2. Worse bass, worse mids, worse treble. Everything is grainy and lifeless when compared
Buy the LCD2F and don't look back

  Search images top-right of this thread will pull up various members' 2-F version FR graphs. If I remember, some were posted in the last few months.

*
You'll fine mine too

 

[gameon]

  You'll find a LOT of graphs in this thread.
And no, HD600 are nothing like LCD2. Worse bass, worse mids, worse treble. Everything is grainy and lifeless when compared
Buy the LCD2F and don't look back

*
You'll fine mine too

I have the LCD2 and the HD600, I would not say the 600's are worse just different.. I tend too reach for them often especially because of how comfortable they are,They also have a nice sound too them, although as I am writing this I just put on my  LCD2's because I'm looking for some heavier bass while listening to some Daft punk. I understand you point about the HD600 I just don't believe they are worse, they are great Headphone, especially for the price.

 

[MrD]

  Search images top-right of this thread will pull up various members' 2-F version FR graphs. If I remember, some were posted in the last few months.

Originally Posted by Alexalder /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
You'll fine mine too

 
Thanks, that's extremely useful. Bass through to the start of upper mids looks fairly similar apart from the dip from 35Hz down (which I doubt would be perceptible), and although the increase from 9K up is quite sharp, the overall change looks modest enough that they may meet my criteria. Just need to somehow get my hands on a pair so I can judge for myself...
 
And yes, while the Senns are excellent value and don't do too much wrong, my old 2.1s definitely outclassed them in all areas, which is why I'm looking to go back now that the darker-than-neutral signature they broadly share is much more appealing for my intended use.

 

[diamondears]

Thanks, that's extremely useful. Bass through to the start of upper mids looks fairly similar apart from the dip from 35Hz down (which I doubt would be perceptible), and although the increase from 9K up is quite sharp, the overall change looks modest enough that they may meet my criteria. Just need to somehow get my hands on a pair so I can judge for myself...

And yes, while the Senns are excellent value and don't do too much wrong, my old 2.1s definitely outclassed them in all areas, which is why I'm looking to go back now that the darker-than-neutral signature they broadly share is much more appealing for my intended use.

The LCD-2F extends well to bass...but it has significantly less quantity and definition/articulation vs. the LCD-2.2. That "enveloping" and harder hitting and girating bass is much less. In fact I hear the LCD-2F as bloomy compared to the LCD-2.2.

 

[CanadianMaestro]

2.2 indeed has tight, satisfying bass.

 

[marcan]

With the price of an LCD-3 I would buy second hand an LCD-2.2 and a Bryston Bha-1. Then you can go to your island.

 

[CanadianMaestro]

  With the price of an LCD-3 I would buy second hand an LCD-2.2 and a Bryston Bha-1. Then you can go to your island.

You got it right.  True value. 

 

[marcan]

 
You got it right.  True value. 

Combo made in heaven but you better have a good dac to do it justice. This is the tricky part.

 

[CanadianMaestro]

  Combo made in heaven but you better have a good dac to do it justice. This is the tricky part.

for me: BDA-1.  End game a long time ago. 

 

[marcan]

 
for me: BDA-1.  End game a long time ago. 

The BDA-2 was on my list but I didn't have the opportunity to listen to it. So I finally bought a secondhand Weiss Dac 202. Not bad either
Did you have the opportunity to compare your bda to the weiss?