[-rowan-]

That's awesome - thank you for that detailed impression. I was super close to pulling the trigger on the ETY ER4XR, but I saw that alo deals had a set of campfire audio orions with the litz cable for $250 used... now I'm torn! Trying to figure out which would complement the i20's better - apparently the orion is a little bass light but still warm and mid-centric.. ER4XR seems like it'd be balanced pretty evenly everywhere. ah, life is so difficult...

So did you pull the trigger on either?

Anyway the ER4XR is here.

Initial impressions - it is indeed a pretty good all-rounder. Enjoying it on its own, you'd be hard pressed to find anything wrong with it, especially if you already own an Ety. I'd place it as a step up from the 4P for folks who find the 4S too clean. But since we're comparing it with the iSines, or at least attempting to do so...

Treble: The iSine 20 is noticeably more sibilant than any of the Etys.
The 20's treble, while smoother and better controlled than the 10's & perfectly acceptable on its own, comes across as altogether too splashy next to the Etys.

Mids: The XR sounds the most 'natural' and relaxed of the lot.
The 20's mids are tighter with the groovy tips, giving it the impression of clarity. Not quite ER4S level, but it's a good try.
With the older smooth tips... I wouldn't bother.

Bass: Yes, that promised bass bump is there in the ER4XR. But it still doesn't hold a candle to either of the iSines and never will.
And guess what? I actually prefer the bass of the ER4S to that of the XR atm. They are both very well extended (more so than the ER4P) but that extra bit of restraint in the 4S lets more detail through. Whereas the few extra db of bass in the XR strikes me as being there more to add a slab of warmth and butter to the sound.

 

[BuddhaBruce]

Soundstage, soundstage, soundstage.
Also, the iSine 20s are like a more fun version of the on-ear Sines. Their bass hits harder and deeper. The Sines are cleaner from the middle upwards, though I will say that the 20s' mids and treble has been noticeably improved by the new groovy tips (which I posted about a few pages back so I shan't repeat myself).
The treble of the 10s are a bit too hard and rough to be viable competition imo but I've seen folks who like 'em better - will leave that part of the comparison to them.

Thanks! I just bought the on eat sines and was considering returning for the isine 10. But I'll be using them on the go and in the office. Sine may be better for that. Initial impressions though seems they need some burn in time

 

[BuddhaBruce]

i prefer the sine to the isine 10.

however, both collecting dust now.

using disposable kz zs5 instead.

sine, you can't use it during hot days.

isine, you can't use it in noisy environment.

thus, both collecting dust.

Hm thanks! I just bought the sines for about 370 new. If they're similar I'll probably keep my sines. Mostly for on the go or in the office. Not sure how much sound the isine 10 would leak

 

[RojasTKD]

Anyone Try the Cipher cable with other IEMs?

I have a pair of Shure SE530 that I had modded to a two oin connector when the original cable started to fail. I think it sounds good, especially with my boosted bass EQ. Helps bring out the low end on the SE530s.

So if you need isolation the Cipher cable could be a nice companion to you other two pin IEMs.

 

[Richter Di]

Are you hearing the tone while the Audeze App is also open? Does it go away when you close the App? Is the tone similar to what you hear when you press the center button?

Sorry, didn't see you post. Will try everything. But I am 100 percent sure I had reset e.g. my iPhone and no app was opened beside Qobuz.

 

[Richter Di]

On many devices, android supports a system wide EQ and there are various apps both paid and free that are available in the app store. As with anything android, it is hard to make any generalizations.
Though I have seen apps that do 5 band eq or add ambiance/surround at a system level, I am not aware an app that would supports PEQ or convolution on a system wide level. My preferred app on Android is HF player (it does not provide PEQ, but has enough granularity to fine tune), except you cannot use it with streaming media such as Tidal.

As an Android user myself, I am painfully aware of the demand for a Cipher cable for the android users. All I can say is we are actively working on it but do not have an ETA yet.The Android market is much more diverse and a challenge to support. As for the USB-C support, though USB-C connector is different and not backward compatible with USB 2, the USB 3.1 standard is backward compatible. It would be straightforward to make the android version work with both USB-C and Micro-USB.

We see the Cipher cable as a potent DSP platform and not just as a DAC/Amp. Some of the ideas we have for the platform in the future include being able to do virtual stereo or room emulation, improving impulse response, allowing users to select from multiple 'tunings' to name a few.

The tuning the Cipher cable is based on PEQ and does not use the 10 band EQ presented by the Audeze App. We arrived at the current tuning used for Cipher based on analysis of numerous measurements we made using iSines on both dummy heads and real people while using different tips and also through listening tests and user feedback. We then tried to match the average response to what we perceive as the ideal curve.

I understand that when it comes to EQ, there is no 'one size fits all'. While the lack of Pinna and concha resonances makes it little easier to measure, fit and seal causes some degree of variability between users. For the tweakers like me, who like to play with EQ, here is a close approximation of the EQ we use in Cipher cable that I created using DMG Equilibrium. You can use this as a starting point or reference and change it further and share it with this community for the benefit of other users.

We have shared a similar EQ profile with Waves Audio for their NX plugin. We are also working with few software players to provide Audeze Presets for iSines and our to other headphones too. We are willing to share presets in other formats too for use with your favorite players or plugins. I will try to start a poll to see what is preferred.

Thank you so much for your post.

I tried to configure the equalizer options on the neutron player on my NW-ZX2.
KMann, could you have a look at what I did and tell me if I am on the right track?

Anything you would do differently? I have no experience at EQing so any help is welcome.
I used everywhere the Peak EQ setting as this seemed to create a graph more similar to yours.
I also set the BW (whatever this is) close to 1. If you change the value to higher numbers it creates a broader dip or tip.
[

 

[davehutch]

Thumbnails!!!!!

 

[Richter Di]

Thumbnails!!!!!

Done.

 

[KMann]

Thank you so much for your post.

I tried to configure the equalizer options on the neutron player on my NW-ZX2.
KMann, could you have a look at what I did and tell me if I am on the right track?

Anything you would do differently? I have no experience at EQing so any help is welcome.
I used everywhere the Peak EQ setting as this seemed to create a graph more similar to yours.
I also set the BW (whatever this is) close to 1. If you change the value to higher numbers it creates a broader dip or tip.

If you use Q factor instead of BW (Band-width), you can directly plug in the values from the EQ I published. In the Neutron, if you click the 'Gear' icon for the individual filter, it will show you an UI and you can click 'Parameter type' to switch to Q from BW. Setting BW close to 1, may not be optimal.

 

[KMann]

Some more EQ options
Since I see a number of Head-fiers using the EQ I posted and also saw some feedback on the EQ, I am happy to post two more variations that go easy near 4k. I would be happy to hear feed-back form you and we can even push the EQ to Cipher at a later point.

Here are two variants (V1, V2) and finally the original I had published earlier.

 

[Richter Di]

Some more EQ options
Since I see a number of Head-fiers using the EQ I posted and also saw some feedback on the EQ, I am happy to post two more variations that go easy near 4k. I would be happy to hear feed-back form you and we can even push the EQ to Cipher at a later point.

Here are two variants (V1, V2) and finally the original I had published earlier.

Thank you so much. Great tip to put in the data directly and also to change the Parameter Type from BW to Q.
Just making sure: Channel 1,2,3,4,7,8,9,10? So 5 and 6 arent used, right?

 

[KMann]

Thank you so much. Great tip to put in the data directly and also to change the Parameter Type from BW to Q.
Just making sure: Channel 1,2,3,4,7,8,9,10? So 5 and 6 arent used, right?

The numbers 1,2, etc are just labels, their order or continuity is not important. Yes, 5 and 6 are missing because I removed them.

 

[regit]

Some more EQ options
Since I see a number of Head-fiers using the EQ I posted and also saw some feedback on the EQ, I am happy to post two more variations that go easy near 4k. I would be happy to hear feed-back form you and we can even push the EQ to Cipher at a later point.

Here are two variants (V1, V2) and finally the original I had published earlier.

The variants are really good For the first time with the iSine 20, I can listen Lisitsa's Chopin Op.25 No.11 from beginning to end... Good stuff and many thanks

 

[tgx78]

What would be EQ settings with Cipher cable and Audeze App to mimic above setting?

 

[crouchingform]

What would be EQ settings with Cipher cable and Audeze App to mimic above setting?

Yeah, I'm curious too.