Audeze iSINE 10 & iSINE 20: Audeze releases two new IEM planar magnetic earphones
Mar 28, 2017 at 4:58 AM Post #1,877 of 7,347
I really can't believe nobody has mentioned this already. There is a truly enormous peak somewhere in the upper mids with very resonant/phasey quality to it. I bet this is why we haven't seen FR plots with any marketing materials, but I don't expect a company to act contrary to their interests.

Apart from this peak, the iSINE20 is really excellent super detailed an cohesive and tonally natural. It would be my dream IEM if not for how distracting and intrusive that humungous peak is. Some people don't seem to mind such features in audio as massive peaks etc so not everyone will be bothered as much as me. I mean i prefer RE400 over 95% of iem regardless of price because of how neutral they are, despite lacking a little detail (vs some BA and iSINE), being little grainy. You can just listen to the music.

I wonder if someone can do notch filter either EQ or discrete component filter circuit to null that resonance? If that was done these would be incredible. Maybe parametric EQ is the go.


Exactly.  A peak with a phasey quality to it. Do you want to know my speculation? this is caused by design fault, in fact first time hearing it I tought "it must be something reflecting on the inside of the flat shell" I also believed to be my fault as the isine20 were touching my auricles. Nope, structure fault.
 
Mar 28, 2017 at 10:28 AM Post #1,878 of 7,347
When I first got my isine 20s I noticed the same thing. It sounded like bass thump and some voices were bouncing off a wall or tunnel. For me, it was a tip and placement issue. Since you don't really need a seal with the isine's because they don't isolate, it can be tricky to figure out what the right tip size is. I found, as others have reported, that the smaller tip size works best for me and by placing the isine's further in my ears, the resonance issue went away for me. YMMV.
 
Mar 28, 2017 at 5:04 PM Post #1,879 of 7,347
  You have the se846 ? The ie800 would easily get beat by isine 20's.  The ie800 wasn't impressive compared to the se846 and k3003. Even with different filters on the se846, I prefer the k3003 over it. The sine 20 would be better than the se846 100%.


Yes I have the SE846 and it is suddenly terrible.  It is now muddy, bloated hollow yet somehow overly warm and thick.  There is no treble at all not much in the upper mids even.  They used to be great, but my tastes have greatly changed.  I don't own, but have tried the Audeze EL8 Closed at an Apple Store in San Francisco and loved the sound.  If that helps point somebody in the right direction in what I am looking for.
 
Thank you
 
Riley
 
Mar 28, 2017 at 5:15 PM Post #1,880 of 7,347
 
Yes I have the SE846 and it is suddenly terrible.  It is now muddy, bloated hollow yet somehow overly warm and thick.  There is no treble at all not much in the upper mids even.  They used to be great, but my tastes have greatly changed.  I don't own, but have tried the Audeze EL8 Closed at an Apple Store in San Francisco and loved the sound.  If that helps point somebody in the right direction in what I am looking for.
 
Thank you
 
Riley

Well, these have been described as sharing the same Audeze house sound. If you like the way EL-8's sound but want an IEM, the iSine is easy to recommend.
 
Mar 28, 2017 at 6:05 PM Post #1,881 of 7,347
  Well, these have been described as sharing the same Audeze house sound. If you like the way EL-8's sound but want an IEM, the iSine is easy to recommend.


That sounds like a match made in heaven.  I can live with the open back for some use.  I can get some other iems for when I need isolation.
 
Thank you very much you were very helpful
 
Riley
 
Mar 28, 2017 at 6:21 PM Post #1,882 of 7,347
I just received my brand new iSine 10s, and here are some eary impressions that surprised me, in one way or another:

*-I'm pretty underwhelmed by the quality of the accessories. The earhooks seem to be made out of the cheapest, chintziest plastic Audeze could source. It's only a matter of time before both pairs get snapped, it seems like routine use--gently putting them on, taking them off--will be enough to do them in. VERY disappointing!

*-The tip of the sound tube is extremely wide, so wide that I haven't been able to squeeze on any of the tips I already have. The included ones are adequate, I guess, though the material is again very cheap and flimsy feeling. And even though they sound good, in my experience, JVC Spiral Dots ALWAYS sound even better! (And spinfits usually do too) So that's another profound disappointment.

*-The iSine 10 is EXTREMELY source dependent, a trait that seems to run counter to their supposed use niche. I'll explain: playing out of the headphone jack on my LG G3, they sound bland, dull, unexciting. Plug into my Mojo, however, and they come to life: the bass starts pounding, the mids gain a richness they lacked. Paired with the Mojo, they sound every bit as beautiful/amazing/exciting as I was expecting.

The problem with this is it significantly limits where and how I can use this supposedly "portable" earphones. It doesn't really matter how portable they are, if the source gear they require isn't.

This is especially surprising to me because the over-ear Sine sounds great just straight out of a smartphone's headphone jack, or from just about any source. The tradeoff, I guess, is the Sine only gets a limited amount of improvement when paired with better sources. Assuming this is an intentional design choice Audeze made, it's a curious decision, and I wonder what reasons they had for making it.

*-With all that said, they do sound incredible (with an incredible source). It's way too early to come to this conclusion, but I think when the dust and emotions have all settled, the iSine 10 will sound better than the LCD2.2 I have. I wish I had an LCD3 or 4 for comparison, and I have to wonder what the iSine 20 can bring!
 
Mar 28, 2017 at 6:26 PM Post #1,883 of 7,347
the ear hooks are definitely tougher than you are perceiving them to be.  You'd have to go out of your way to break them.
 
unless the LG G3 has a high output impedance - which is possible, or there are some kind of eq settings on, it's hard to believe they would sound that different unless the LG just has a crappy output sound in general.
The 10's have even less impedance, and more sensitivity than the 20's which means they should be very easily driven by any source. 
when you go through the mojo are you still using the analogue cable? 
 
also there is this regarding the LG G3 sound quality, though I do not know if it applies to your situation.
 
Mar 28, 2017 at 8:41 PM Post #1,885 of 7,347
Huh neat. Good to know I'm not crazy in hearing them(i10 vs i20) as having mostly the same sound sig.


Listening to iSINE10 and the midrange peak/s is not so noticeable. Maybe more something peculiar to the iSINE20. I think I prefer the iSINE10 because of this.
 
Mar 28, 2017 at 11:08 PM Post #1,886 of 7,347
the ear hooks are definitely tougher than you are perceiving them to be. You'd have to go out of your way to break them.

unless the LG G3 has a high output impedance - which is possible, or there are some kind of eq settings on, it's hard to believe they would sound that different unless the LG just has a crappy output sound in general.
The 10's have even less impedance, and more sensitivity than the 20's which means they should be very easily driven by any source.
when you go through the mojo are you still using the analogue cable?

also there is this regarding the LG G3 sound quality, though I do not know if it applies to your situation.


That's encouraging to hear about the earhooks, I'd definitely like to be wrong. What makes you say that though? Like what are you basing it on?

The link regarding the G3 isn't about the sound quality, but the phone's behavior when plugging/unplugging cables (I replaced the jack years ago to fix that problem, and soldered it for good measure).

As it happens the G3 has a fairly good sound out the headphone jack, as far as smartphones go. It was the LG flagship when new, after all. I listen to and enjoy my Sennheiser MX985, Koss KDE250 and Audeze Sine headphones straight from the jack often, and the Sines especially sound fantastic there. I don't believe there's any output impedance related inaccuracy going on--it's never been a problem before, and the Ostry KC06A sounds about as good as it ever does on it.

I switched back to the headphone jack now to make sure I wasn't imagining things, but nope, same impression. I will add that it isn't bad in any objectionable way, and on second impression I can imagine lots of people listening this way without complaint. It's like how I loved my Sines with M4U earpads for months, but after trying them with Brainwavz angled pads, I can't go back. What the M4U pads that I loved make it seem dull and lifeless now.

This is kind of a generic guess, but maybe @16 ohms there isn't enough current available? The iSines do like quite a bit of power to be at their best. As an experiment I think I'll head down to the labratory tonight to build a cable with resistors on both channels, assuming I can scrounge up a pair with an appropriate value (do I need/want one on the ground line as well? I'll have to look that up). When listening with the MX985 and Sine, the volume is almost always maxed out, while the iSine 10 is getting uncomfortable at 3/4 the way up. I expect the results to be informative.
 
Mar 28, 2017 at 11:18 PM Post #1,887 of 7,347
I also have another positive impression that's worth adding:

*-The iSines are surprisingly comfortable to wear, even with the earhooks and glasses. They weigh next to nothing, and the dauntingly long soundtubes don't insert as deep as I feared; they don't make me feel like the head cheerleader at the hotel after prom, which I was afraid of. They're really quite comfortable in every way, and they stay securely in place with no extra effort, no constant readjusting.
I coukd leave these on all day, leaving them in even without music playing, since they dont block much sound at all. To me, that's a good thing; one of my bigger complaints about the KDE250 is that it blocks out more sound than I'd like.
 
Mar 28, 2017 at 11:54 PM Post #1,888 of 7,347
That's encouraging to hear about the earhooks, I'd definitely like to be wrong. What makes you say that though? Like what are you basing it on?

The link regarding the G3 isn't about the sound quality, but the phone's behavior when plugging/unplugging cables (I replaced the jack years ago to fix that problem, and soldered it for good measure).

As it happens the G3 has a fairly good sound out the headphone jack, as far as smartphones go. It was the LG flagship when new, after all. I listen to and enjoy my Sennheiser MX985, Koss KDE250 and Audeze Sine headphones straight from the jack often, and the Sines especially sound fantastic there. I don't believe there's any output impedance related inaccuracy going on--it's never been a problem before, and the Ostry KC06A sounds about as good as it ever does on it.

I switched back to the headphone jack now to make sure I wasn't imagining things, but nope, same impression. I will add that it isn't bad in any objectionable way, and on second impression I can imagine lots of people listening this way without complaint. It's like how I loved my Sines with M4U earpads for months, but after trying them with Brainwavz angled pads, I can't go back. What the M4U pads that I loved make it seem dull and lifeless now.

This is kind of a generic guess, but maybe @16 ohms there isn't enough current available? The iSines do like quite a bit of power to be at their best. As an experiment I think I'll head down to the labratory tonight to build a cable with resistors on both channels, assuming I can scrounge up a pair with an appropriate value (do I need/want one on the ground line as well? I'll have to look that up). When listening with the MX985 and Sine, the volume is almost always maxed out, while the iSine 10 is getting uncomfortable at 3/4 the way up. I expect the results to be informative.

 
i've had mine for a while.  The hooks have taken their fair share of wear and tear, and i even experimented with melt molding one pair to form it better around my ear.  you'll see. 
 
as for the rest i don't know.  I can only go by my own experience. 
 
I had asked if you are using the analogue cable via the mojo as well just in case you were one of many of the people on here who did not realize that the lightning cable has a built in dsp and drastically changes the sound for the better.
 
Mar 29, 2017 at 12:13 AM Post #1,889 of 7,347
Anecdotally, Audeze partnered with SureFire for the Earhooks. They have several patents. They employ staff researchers and engineers from top schools. They make their stuff in the USA. In a cottage industry driven hobby, they're one brand who really stands out to me as having assembled something special with the people driving it.

Why does that matter to me? Well, I'm a corporate headhunter and the teams I assemble for my employer affect not only everyone reading this but the future of computing itself. My whole world revolves around gathering signal about what a team is made of, their pedigrees, their actual work output. Patents, peer reviewed publications, publicly recognized names. A project is only as good as the sum of it's team.

As for the ramble: I think it's silly to think an company like Audeze, who's partnering with SureFire for it's earhooks + spends so much on it's own R&D, would use chinsey plastics in the earhooks. Of all the things to identify as lpotential engineering failure points, that's a pretty poor target.

I do understand they've had trouble with new LCD drivers and Wood rings in the past. Those seem to be the common failure points. I think, with this being a second/third gen and having probably invested in more manufacturing equipment, the drivers are probably pretty safe. And there's no wood.

Actually, from everything I've seen, my biggest concern for failure (and it's small) is the cable connector points at the bottom of the buds & the corresponding process of attaching/detaching in the included case. When they get here, I'll be experimenting with portable soft cases that fit everything without going through the cable attach/detach process.

/endrant
 
Mar 29, 2017 at 1:03 AM Post #1,890 of 7,347
Uh oh. Using the foam & plastic holder thing for the first time. I like how you can wrap the cable around it, but somebody please correct me if I'm wrong--and I'm seriously hoping I am--but you have to unclip the earhooks every time before you can fit them in the protective foam???? Are you &%*%@! kidding me Audeze?



Let's assume that I'm wrong about the earhooks fragility, and taking them on and off repeatedly isn't going to break anything. So you take them off, and then what? The carrying case doesn't have any pockets for them! To make things worse, it's not fully enclosed, so if you want to put them underneath the foam case, or on the side, they're guaranteed to fall out somewhere, never to be seen again!



What Audeze, I just...I don't have the words. How can you be so brilliant and creative at designing head and earphones, yet be just plain STUPID at everything else? I think I can modify the carry case to make it usable, but why should I have to? Out of the box it's worse than garbage, because if you're not paying close attention, it will make you lose the earhooks that are MANDATORY if you want to listen to anything! At least there's a backup pair of those in the box. Someone reliant on the ONE pair of antihelix stabilizers is simply screwed, if they're daffy enough to use this worthless garbage.

Am I off base here? Surely this system can't possibly be as stupid as I'm thinking, can it?
 

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