[RobA19]

Happy to be joining the iSine club with a set of the 20's arriving tomorrow. I'll use the lightning cable with my ipad pro and the standard cable thru my QPR dap. Can't wait to try these things out! Thought my new set of Trinity Hunter's would be first to arrive, but still waiting on them sadly.

 

[guyben]

Happy to be joining the iSine club with a set of the 20's arriving tomorrow. I'll use the lightning cable with my ipad pro and the standard cable thru my QPR dap. Can't wait to try these things out! Thought my new set of Trinity Hunter's would be first to arrive, but still waiting on them sadly.

Congrats.
I'd appreciate it if you can update on the sound with the standard cable. Specifically interested in learning if these really do fail to sound their best without EQ.
 
Thanks

 

[sorrick]

Congrats.
I'd appreciate it if you can update on the sound with the standard cable. Specifically interested in learning if these really do fail to sound their best without EQ.

Thanks

I might be able to provide some clarity from my experience. I received my iSine 20s at the end of last week and have experimented around with a bunch of different sources, amps, both cables etc. The majority of my listening is either coming from an iDeivce or my computer using streamed music (mostly tidal hifi or mqa masters, but I've also listened to Apple Music and Spotify with the isines).

While my iPhone 7 plus can drive isines using the standard 3.5mm cable and the apple lightning to 3.5mm adaptor, the cypher cable sounds MUCH better direct out of the iPhone. This makes sense given there is a dedicated dac and amp in the cypher cable. However, I have found that the isines scale very well with amplification using the 3.5mm cable, so if I connect my iphone to my dragonfly red (via apple usb 3.0 cck), ha-2, or mojo, the isines sound just as good or better than they do straight out the cypher cable. With the DFR, the sound is pretty comparable. To my ears, the instrument separation is a little better and things are generally a little tighter with the DFR, but I prefer the decay out of the cypher cable. I prefer the sound of the 3.5mm cable through the mojo than through the cypher cable alone, although the cypher cable is closer in quality than it has any business being.

All this is more of a reflection of the really great job that audeze has done creating synergy between the cypher cable and the isines. To me it is remarkable that a $50 cable can suddenly get similar response out of the isines as a $200-$500 portable dac/amp; however, if you are using a source with a solid dac and amp, you will be very happy with the isine 20s using the standard 3.5mm cable. Hope that helps

 

[sorrick]

I might be able to provide some clarity from my experience. I received my iSine 20s at the end of last week and have experimented around with a bunch of different sources, amps, both cables etc. The majority of my listening is either coming from an iDeivce or my computer using streamed music (mostly tidal hifi or mqa masters, but I've also listened to Apple Music and Spotify with the isines).

While my iPhone 7 plus can drive isines using the standard 3.5mm cable and the apple lightning to 3.5mm adaptor, the cypher cable sounds MUCH better direct out of the iPhone. This makes sense given there is a dedicated dac and amp in the cypher cable. However, I have found that the isines scale very well with amplification using the 3.5mm cable, so if I connect my iphone to my dragonfly red (via apple usb 3.0 cck), ha-2, or mojo, the isines sound just as good or better than they do straight out the cypher cable. With the DFR, the sound is pretty comparable. To my ears, the instrument separation is a little better and things are generally a little tighter with the DFR, but I prefer the decay out of the cypher cable. I prefer the sound of the 3.5mm cable through the mojo than through the cypher cable alone, although the cypher cable is closer in quality than it has any business being.

All this is more of a reflection of the really great job that audeze has done creating synergy between the cypher cable and the isines. To me it is remarkable that a $50 cable can suddenly get similar response out of the isines as a $200-$500 portable dac/amp; however, if you are using a source with a solid dac and amp, you will be very happy with the isine 20s using the standard 3.5mm cable. Hope that helps

As an addendum, I haven't listened to the isines with the 3.5mm cable through the ha-2 long enough to have a good sense of how I feel it compares to the cypher cable, but they definitely sound better through the ha-2 than direct out of the iPhone using the lightning to 3.5mm cable. Once I have some more time with it, I can report back with more detailed impressions.

 

[Kazekeil]

It's also important to note that the cipher has a pretty heavy EQ programmed into it, even if the app is "flat". There's a near 6db boost in some treble ranges and I believe a -4db to the midrange.

I personally see the two cables almost like different headphones. Some days I feel the lush, warm sound of the 3.5mm, others I like the detail monster, fun, dynamic sound of the cipher. Neither will be technically better because it's the same transducer either way, but there is a true objective change using the cipher. I think the engineer posted the exact EQ profile around page 84

 

[Ceteru]

So I read that review of the iSines from Metal-Fi (linked here for reference), and it has me conflicted. I hear people saying that the iSine10 has the better priceerformance ratio, but I also hear (from the article mainly) that the iSine20 sounds like a mini LCD-2. The article in particular says that the iSine10 sound congested by comparison, more like a "regular" IEM. 
 
Can anyone confirm about the difference between the iSine10 and iSine20 sound signatures? I'm trying to buy the better of the two.

 

[Kazekeil]

So I read that review of the iSines from Metal-Fi (linked here for reference), and it has me conflicted. I hear people saying that the iSine10 has the better priceerformance ratio, but I also hear (from the article mainly) that the iSine20 sounds like a mini LCD-2. The article in particular says that the iSine10 sound congested by comparison, more like a "regular" IEM. 

Can anyone confirm about the difference between the iSine10 and iSine20 sound signatures? I'm trying to buy the better of the two.

I have my comparison a few pages back but I honestly didn't hear much of a difference and felt the dual release came off as a bit money grab-ish. They're both tuned nearly the same to my ears and the main difference of the i20 is the clearer, less splashy highs. There is also a little more bass control but apart from that soundstage was the same, bass impact and amount were the same, mids were the same. It was like a $50ish increase in performance(again, to MY ears). I've been pushing the i10 like crazy to my friends and anyone who will listen to me preach for 5 minutes about them, but the i20 as an option rubs me the wrong way. If you have two versions where the only difference is the length of the printed voice coil, then why have two models at all? Just release the better one instead of making this whole upgradeitis option. You end up with people reviewing it having a sighted bias that the i20 should be $200 better and it just isn't. Audeze should've released just the i20 at like $450 or $500 and been done with it, put their best foot forward etc.

Rant over. If you want the objectively better sound, it's the i20. It's just not with that much over the astounding i10. That's still saying a lot about the isines in general. The i20 is still a good deal at $600 but the i10 is just so god damn great at $400.

 

[Ceteru]

-snip-

No worries for the rant, it's all helpful information.
 
That eases my mind a bit.
 
If I may ask though, if that all is true, what made you upgrade to the i20s? Curiosity?

 

[Kazekeil]

No worries for the rant, it's all helpful information.

That eases my mind a bit.

If I may ask though, if that all is true, what made you upgrade to the i20s? Curiosity?

I originally got the i10 without cipher and decided I want the cipher. Found a deal for the i20, $419 with cipher so hopped on that and just returned the i10

 

[Ceteru]

I originally got the i10 without cipher and decided I want the cipher. Found a deal for the i20, $419 with cipher so hopped on that and just returned the i10

Ah, since it was pretty much just a $19 upgrade? Makes sense.
 
So would you recommend:
 
a) saving for the i10s (with the intention to buy them) but to jump on any deals for the i20s?
 
b) just saving for the i20s since they're "better" anyway?
 
or 
 
c) a bit of both?
 
I found a site (Razor Dog Audio) that is selling the i10s with standard cable for $349, so I was trying to figure out which model I should be focusing on.

 

[Kazekeil]

I would save for the i10 with the intention of getting it off Audeze's website. If you're absolutely in love with it(like I was)and think you'll use it as a main desk headphon(like i do), not just a portable iem, return it and continue saving for the i20. If you get it and like it as just an iem but don't see it being a daily driver at your desk, just stick with the i10. So basically it just comes down to how much you'll use it. If you're going to use it like 40+% of your headphone time, go for the i20. Personally my i20 and HD800 use is about 50/50.

I think the deal I got was a pricing error + I had some store credit on the website from referrals, so I don't think another $420ish i20 is popping up soon.

 

[Ceteru]

I would save for the i10 with the intention of getting it off Audeze's website. If you're absolutely in love with it(like I was)and think you'll use it as a main desk headphon(like i do), not just a portable iem, return it and continue saving for the i20. If you get it and like it as just an iem but don't see it being a daily driver at your desk, just stick with the i10. So basically it just comes down to how much you'll use it. If you're going to use it like 40+% of your headphone time, go for the i20. Personally my i20 and HD800 use is about 50/50.

I think the deal I got was a pricing error + I had some store credit on the website from referrals, so I don't think another $420ish i20 is popping up soon.

My intent is to buy it to be my "portable Hi-Fi" solution. I have my travel "beaters" (ATH-M40X), my home open cans (HE400i), my home closed cans (T40RP MK-III for now), but I want some "portable everyday Hi-Fi" earphones, whether they be IEMs or full cans. I gravitated to these because of the positive reviews of them, including that they are basically full cans in IEM form, which sounds perfect for my use case.
 
So in essence, if I got them, they'd be used on the go (although if they sound as good as you mention, I might end up using them a lot more even at home).
 
If I return them to Audeze, do I get a full refund (minus any shipping charges)?

 

[Kazekeil]

I firmly believe the iSine will become your main pair then if that's their competition but of course that depends on your musical tastes, frequency response preferences and how comfy they are to you.

And yea you just pay return shipping.

 

[Ceteru]

That sounds promising..
 
Honestly the iSines don't HAVE to be my solution, they're just the ones in my sights right now. I considered the Oppo PM3 and the Sine, but reading various reviews about them (yours included) make me feel rather lukewarm towards them. 
 
All I'm looking for is something planar or planar-competing in a portable form factor, it can be cans or IEMs or earbuds.
 
Of course, the biggest issue is that there's no way to tell about anything I'm considering without demoing them, which for me means buying and then shipping back if I don't like it, at a loss to me. *sighs*
 
At this point, I'm kind of just looking for a deal so that I can pay less money.
 
BTW, I find it telling that there's not many end-users selling any iSines 

 Guess they're that good.

 

[kernel8888]

Yea I'd say an equivant full size equivalent would be on the level of an LCD-2/he-560/he-500. Should outclass your he-400i, unless there's simply something that doesn't suit your preference.

I like mine (isine10 3.5mm) better than my hd700, alpha dogs, w40s. They are more close in tone and performance to my he-6 imo. Some will say different though.