Audeze CRBN 2

Sep 29, 2024 at 10:07 AM Post #46 of 240
I have a +5 db bass boost on my CRBN right now dialed in on the RME. I hope the other improvements are audible and not just something that can be accomplished with a basic bass EQ or "bass boost" button on some hardware
I hope you can audition and find out yourself.

With EQ, you have to trade significant headroom to avoid clipping, results depend on the quality of implementation of the EQ.

The way it is implemented in SLAM, bass is not only improved, but it also reduces distortions in the lower frequencies and is linear, resulting in a cleaner and controlled bass.

Bass being the foundation, overall presentation changes, sense of space is also better than before (this is a personal observation, not stating it as a fact)
 
Sep 29, 2024 at 10:08 AM Post #47 of 240
I hope you can audition and find out yourself.

With EQ, you have to trade significant headroom to avoid clipping, results depend on the quality of implementation of the EQ.

The way it is implemented in SLAM, bass is not only improved, but it also reduces distortions in the lower frequencies and is linear, resulting in a cleaner and controlled bass.

Bass being the foundation, overall presentation changes, sense of space is also better than before (this is a personal observation, not stating it as a fact)
Is SLAM something like what Dan Clark introduced in the Stealth? Please explain in simple terms? Thanks 🙂
 
Sep 29, 2024 at 10:09 AM Post #48 of 240
Can you tell me a TOTL headphone without a lot of padding in the price?

The Immanis is almost $10k , the Susvara is $8k and they’re both made in countries with substantially lower labour costs.

Audeze has seen that $6k is acceptable to headfiers ( thanks Hifiman) so they want a piece of the pie.

Headfi will happily keep gushing about these products claiming they’re better and better ( even if they’re not) .

In 10 years $5k will be mid-fi and $10k will be the entry point to summit fi.

And we’ll have the usual suspects claiming that the $10k headphone is more detailed than the $5k headphone and how a $15k amp is a requirement to “maximize performance “.

In other domains like mobile phone, computers and cars we have powerful, influential reviewers who will ridicule products that aren’t a good value. In our world we mostly have marketers pretending to be reviewers.

The problem with this is, in other domains it's very easy to judge performance and value since you have clear metrics that measure both. In headphones, metrics will only get you so far, a lot of performance is subjective, and as a result value becomes harder to quantify.

Also, there are places trying to do just that - quantify headphone performance with only metrics and hold manufacturers to account on both performance and value - but they're not always well regarded and their methods don't always correlate to real world performance.

In other words, it's a mess. And it's fertile ground for companies to charge an arm and a leg and get away with it.

I agree, the price is silly. It's why I left some snarky comments elsewhere. But, $4500 in 2020 bucks is a tad over $5470 in 2024 dollars so the jump isn't huge. The main issue is that of perceived value and what else you can get for the money, which makes ANY headphone at $6k very hard to justify if value is even remotely a concern, much less an $8K or $9k one.

That, and the long-term health of a hobby that dedicates so much of itself to chasing a small number of luxury buyers rather than a larger number of ordinary enthusiasts... probably isn't that great.

Anyway, Stax can now sell you an outstanding estat at 1/10th of the price, and if you don't like the direction the trend is going in, vote with your dollar.
 
Sep 29, 2024 at 10:19 AM Post #49 of 240
The problem with this is, in other domains it's very easy to judge performance and value since you have clear metrics that measure both. In headphones, metrics will only get you so far, a lot of performance is subjective, and as a result value becomes harder to quantify.

Also, there are places trying to do just that - quantify headphone performance with only metrics and hold manufacturers to account on both performance and value - but they're not always well regarded and their methods don't always correlate to real world performance.

In other words, it's a mess. And it's fertile ground for companies to charge an arm and a leg and get away with it.

I agree, the price is silly. It's why I left some snarky comments elsewhere. But, $4500 in 2020 bucks is a tad over $5470 in 2024 dollars so the jump isn't huge. The main issue is that of perceived value and what else you can get for the money, which makes ANY headphone at $6k very hard to justify if value is even remotely a concern, much less an $8K or $9k one.

That, and the long-term health of a hobby that dedicates so much of itself to chasing a small number of luxury buyers rather than a larger number of ordinary enthusiasts... probably isn't that great.

Anyway, Stax can now sell you an outstanding estat at 1/10th of the price, and if you don't like the direction the trend is going in, vote with your dollar.
So, TOTL prices for all headphones companies these days are in this kind of region unfortunately, its the market.

Regarding Stax's stat at 1/10th the price, I own one (I presume you mean the SR-X1) and am a great fan of it, but the CRBN is better performing (whether anything is worth the price difference though is up to the consumer), so presumably the CRBN2 will be better.

I presume the CRBN2 is targeted at competing with the Stax SR-X9000, which is $6199 in 2021 dollars. So these are comparable price ranges.
 
Last edited:
Sep 29, 2024 at 11:01 AM Post #50 of 240
Is SLAM something like ...? Please explain in simple terms? Thanks 🙂
SLAM is unique and is patent pending, we avoid altering sound by adding passive filters in the path of sound.

To create dynamic, controlled bass (the kind that hits with precision and depth), you need three critical components: good driver control, a solid seal and precisely calibrated tension. We already nailed the driver control through our Uniforce and Fluxor technologies, but great bass demands more.

Here's the challenge: a tight seal is crucial for deep bass, but it also exerts additional pressure on ultra-thin diaphragms. While less tension may enhance bass, it can lead to issues like the diaphragm sticking to the stator, or require spacing the stators further apart, reducing efficiency. Balancing a perfect seal, maintaining optimal tension, and delivering powerful bass while preserving driver reliability is no small feat—it's an engineering paradox.

That’s where SLAM comes in. We found a way to solve both problems simultaneously. What if the pressure-relieving mechanism also acted as an acoustic modulator to enhance low frequencies? With this, we could maintain the seal, tension, and still achieve even better bass response without compromise.

SLAM incorporates precisely engineered channels seamlessly integrated into the ring that connects the earpads to the drivers. Each channel’s length, cross-section, and shape are tuned through simulations, measurements, and critical listening to achieve the ideal low-frequency response.

These channels not only relieve pressure but acoustically modulate the low frequencies, boosting them in a smooth fashion. The result? Six decibels of bass enhancement, or more, extending as deep as 10Hz, and even less low-frequency distortion.

I am borrowing this graphics we already have on our site, I have also shown the symmetric channels we added to the ring that goes between the earpad and the driver.
1727621872703.png
 
Last edited:
Sep 29, 2024 at 11:36 AM Post #51 of 240
SLAM is unique and is patent pending, we avoid altering sound by adding passive filters in the path of sound.

To create dynamic, controlled bass (the kind that hits with precision and depth), you need three critical components: good driver control, a solid seal and precisely calibrated tension. We already nailed the driver control through our Uniforce and Fluxor technologies, but great bass demands more.

Here's the challenge: a tight seal is crucial for deep bass, but it also exerts additional pressure on ultra-thin diaphragms. While less tension may enhance bass, it can lead to issues like the diaphragm sticking to the stator, or require spacing the stators further apart, reducing efficiency. Balancing a perfect seal, maintaining optimal tension, and delivering powerful bass while preserving driver reliability is no small feat—it's an engineering paradox.

That’s where SLAM comes in. We found a way to solve both problems simultaneously. What if the pressure-relieving mechanism also acted as an acoustic modulator to enhance low frequencies? With this, we could maintain the seal, tension, and still achieve even better bass response without compromise.

SLAM incorporates precisely engineered channels seamlessly integrated into the ring that connects the earpads to the drivers. Each channel’s length, cross-section, and shape are tuned through simulations, measurements, and critical listening to achieve the ideal low-frequency response.

These channels not only relieve pressure but acoustically modulate the low frequencies, boosting them in a smooth fashion. The result? Six decibels of bass enhancement, or more, extending as deep as 10Hz, and even less low-frequency distortion.

I am borrowing this graphics we already have on our site, I have also shown the symmetric channels we added to the ring that goes between the earpad and the driver.
1727621872703.png
Is the Carbon CC your favourite pairing with the CRBN/CRBN 2? If not, which amplifier?
 
Sep 29, 2024 at 11:38 AM Post #52 of 240
SLAM is unique and is patent pending, we avoid altering sound by adding passive filters in the path of sound.

To create dynamic, controlled bass (the kind that hits with precision and depth), you need three critical components: good driver control, a solid seal and precisely calibrated tension. We already nailed the driver control through our Uniforce and Fluxor technologies, but great bass demands more.

Here's the challenge: a tight seal is crucial for deep bass, but it also exerts additional pressure on ultra-thin diaphragms. While less tension may enhance bass, it can lead to issues like the diaphragm sticking to the stator, or require spacing the stators further apart, reducing efficiency. Balancing a perfect seal, maintaining optimal tension, and delivering powerful bass while preserving driver reliability is no small feat—it's an engineering paradox.

That’s where SLAM comes in. We found a way to solve both problems simultaneously. What if the pressure-relieving mechanism also acted as an acoustic modulator to enhance low frequencies? With this, we could maintain the seal, tension, and still achieve even better bass response without compromise.

SLAM incorporates precisely engineered channels seamlessly integrated into the ring that connects the earpads to the drivers. Each channel’s length, cross-section, and shape are tuned through simulations, measurements, and critical listening to achieve the ideal low-frequency response.

These channels not only relieve pressure but acoustically modulate the low frequencies, boosting them in a smooth fashion. The result? Six decibels of bass enhancement, or more, extending as deep as 10Hz, and even less low-frequency distortion.

I am borrowing this graphics we already have on our site, I have also shown the symmetric channels we added to the ring that goes between the earpad and the driver.
1727621872703.png
Thanks for the detailed explanation!
 
Sep 29, 2024 at 12:50 PM Post #54 of 240
I just hope the main improvements over the original CRBN aren't centered around bass, as that's not what the OG needed to improve. I think if resolution and spacing improves to a moderate or higher degree, while maintaining similar bass performance or slightly better, it will then be worth the price. The main issue with the original is that it didn't keep pace resolution wise with what stats are known for. You fix that and then with its other strengths (tonality and bass), it becomes a much, much stronger actual contending TOTL stat.

And that's what I'm hoping for. This is a release that may cause me to break my spending hiatus based on how the impressions role in. :)
 
Last edited:
Sep 29, 2024 at 1:03 PM Post #55 of 240
I just hope the main improvements over the original CRBN aren't centered around bass, as that's not what the OG needed to improve. I think if resolution and spacing improves to a moderate or higher degree, while maintaining similar bass performance or slightly better, it will then be worth the price. The main issue with the original is that it didn't keep pace resolution wise with what stats are known for. You fix that and then with its other strengths (tonality and bass), it becomes a much, much stronger actual contending TOTL stat.

And that's what I'm hoping for. This is a release that may cause me to break my spending hiatus based on how the impressions role in. :)
Sounds like that the CRBN , similar to the LCD-3/LCD-4 is going down the bass focused direction. Given the driver tension causing farting/sticking made the headphone unlistenable for many (even my “fixed” version had problems) it makes sense they needed to address that first.
 
Sep 29, 2024 at 1:32 PM Post #56 of 240
Sounds like that the CRBN , similar to the LCD-3/LCD-4 is going down the bass focused direction. Given the driver tension causing farting/sticking made the headphone unlistenable for many (even my “fixed” version had problems) it makes sense they needed to address that first.

I do get addressing that issue. I do think releasing an updated version that doesn't address the main sonic issue called out (excluding the farts as it's just a design flaw) is a mistake.. especially at the price. But for now, I'm going to keep my fingers crossed a bit.
 
Sep 29, 2024 at 1:33 PM Post #57 of 240
I do get addressing that issue. I do think releasing an updated version that doesn't address the main sonic issue called out (excluding the farts as it's just a design flaw) is a mistake.. especially at the price. But for now, I'm going to keep my fingers crossed a bit.
I agree. Ideally a click up in resolution
 
Sep 30, 2024 at 1:28 AM Post #58 of 240
Depends on what you like. I prefer tube amps. May not measure as well but just have something special. Don’t care for most SS amps. Although some class A amps are pretty nice. I do have a HeadAmp CFA3 on preorder. Again preference matters. If you are happy with what you have good for you. But not everyone shares your opinion on SMSL products or Topping for that matter. . I guess that’s why so many companies make amps and dacs.
I notice your signature has a couple of pretty nice electrostatic amps. Were they worth it? I think the BHSE is for sure. I love mine. Listening to it now with the CRBN. How do you like the X9000?
 
Sep 30, 2024 at 7:46 AM Post #59 of 240
I notice your signature has a couple of pretty nice electrostatic amps. Were they worth it? I think the BHSE is for sure. I love mine. Listening to it now with the CRBN. How do you like the X9000?

My Blue Hawaii isn't the BHSE, its the BH BJT which is the 2015 refresh of the original Blue Hawaii design(I might be off on the date)

I prefer the CRBN/CRBN combo and X9000/BH combo.

Thing is before I got the X9000 I read that the Carbon was a "bad pairing" so I wonder how much of that is psychological.
 
Sep 30, 2024 at 9:18 AM Post #60 of 240
My Blue Hawaii isn't the BHSE, its the BH BJT which is the 2015 refresh of the original Blue Hawaii design(I might be off on the date)

I prefer the CRBN/CRBN combo and X9000/BH combo.

Thing is before I got the X9000 I read that the Carbon was a "bad pairing" so I wonder how much of that is psychological.

People hear differently and have different preferences. When people say a certain combo is a bad pairing, you need to take in account their preferences, genres, they listen to, etc., or take with a grain of slight grain of salt until you hear the combo yourself. I've previously heard that the CRBN and x9000 aren't good to pair with the BHSE, of which I thoroughly enjoyed when I owned them.

Would also agree with the previous poster, not everyone that enjoys more expensive amps does so simply because they're more expensive. The ability to use better parts, better topology that requires more R&D/build hours, etc. can all lead to better performance. Obviously you shouldn't buy solely based on price (whoever you keep referencing regarding the $3k simply gave bad advice), but I'm sure you have the amps you have based mainly on performance. :)
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top