ATH M50 vs. KRK KNS 6400 - which one?

[firstfall]

With a $250 budget, I'm looking at these two headphones to be used for everyday use, including commuting around campus. To me, I'm worried about the build of the KNS 6400, it seems a little cheap and the ear cups and headband could be made with better material. I read that the KNS 8400 have memory foam on the headband, but how does the sound change with the upgrade in models?
 
There are other models I'm considering, but since the prices are varied between these models, I'm not sure how to properly draw a comparison between them (including the M50 and KNS 6400):
- Koss DJ100
- Sony ZX700 (Again, worried about the build.)
- Denon AH-A100
 
In terms of build, sound, isolation, portability and comfort which one would be superior? I listen to pop (asian/mainstream), rock, alternative, hip hop, R&B and instrumentals. Probably prefer leaning towards the lows and mids; not necessarily too analytical either.
 
Thanks!

 

[Zombie_X]

Hi,
 
I think of the ones you mentioned that the DJ100 would be the best bet. It's a great all rounder headphone that does a lot of stuff right, but at the right price. I think $50 is a great price but at retail they aren't worth it.
 

1. The M50 is bright, bass heavy, but does not have a lot of midrange warmth. It sounds pretty V shaped and works best with rap and hip-hop. It has good detail, comparable to the KNS-6400.
    
2. The KNS-6400 is pretty neutral but also nicely balanced. It has less bass than the others you listed but I think it's the most detailed and flat of the bunch.

 

1. The DJ100 is warm and bassy, with a natural sound to it. Overall I'd say it's pretty balanced compared to the other cans listed. It's fairly detailed but nothing great (at full retail).

 

1. The ZX700 is somewhat bright with decent bass but the mids are lacking. I find it caters to me bass oriented genre's. I find it's detail to be good, certainly better than the DJ100.

 

1. The A100 is pretty warm with a emphasis on bass and excellent but never harsh treble. This headphones also caters to more bass heavy genre's but does work well with rock and metal. As far as detail goes I'd say it's on par with the DJ100.

 

[firstfall]

Thank you for your feedback! How is the build of the DJ100 though? This is important because comfort and isolation can be considered deciding factors for me. I read from your profile you have the KRK KNS 8400, how do you feel about them?

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

With a $250 budget, I'm looking at these two headphones to be used for everyday use, including commuting around campus. To me, I'm worried about the build of the KNS 6400, it seems a little cheap and the ear cups and headband could be made with better material. I read that the KNS 8400 have memory foam on the headband, but how does the sound change with the upgrade in models?
 
There are other models I'm considering, but since the prices are varied between these models, I'm not sure how to properly draw a comparison between them (including the M50 and KNS 6400):
- Koss DJ100
- Sony ZX700 (Again, worried about the build.)
- Denon AH-A100
 
In terms of build, sound, isolation, portability and comfort which one would be superior? I listen to pop (asian/mainstream), rock, alternative, hip hop, R&B and instrumentals. Probably prefer leaning towards the lows and mids; not necessarily too analytical either.
 
Thanks!

 
The 6400 and 8400 have similar, if not identical build quality (except for pads etc). The 8400 cups look a bit better. Once you put the headphones on you'll find they're not that good for portable use in public. They're big and awkward and have that square look to the headband.
 
I'd suggest the 8400 over the 6400, but some may prefer the 6400. It's mids did seem a bit more forward (sounding). The 8400 does have better bass IMO. The KRKs are definitely analytical and are not for everyone.
 
I find them musical, but I don't know if I could use them as my ONLY headphones. Sometimes the treble can be a bit bothersome.
 
I would suggest the DJ100 over them. These sound far better to me. Smoother treble, more bass and slightly more forward mids. The DJ100 sounds balanced to me, but with a slight edge to being a fun sound signature.
Quote:

Hi,
 
I think of the ones you mentioned that the DJ100 would be the best bet. It's a great all rounder headphone that does a lot of stuff right, but at the right price. I think $50 is a great price but at retail they aren't worth it.
 
The M50 is bright, bass heavy, but does not have a lot of midrange warmth. The DJ100 is warm and bassy, with a natural sound to it. The ZX700 is somewhat bright with decent bass but the mids are lacking. The A100 is pretty warm with a emphasis on bass and excellent but never harsh treble.

DJ100 not worth $75 retail? What? How is the build quality alone not worth a little extra? How many other companies sell a headphone with metal cups for under $100? The V6? Anything else?
 
I'd put the overall sound quality of the Koss Pro DJ 100 (ok, Tony Bennett) with M50 pads in the up to $150-$250 closed headphone category.  Not even the K550, DT-770 Pro 80/600, M50, D2000 or SRH-840/SRH-940 could top it as a favorite. The SRH-940 actually sounded less clear than the DJ100. Weird. I guess those can be "technically" better, but who cares about that. I was impressed with the KRKs, but they're just not as fun as the DJ100 to listen to. Now there's a ton of open headphones that are technically better, but I don't listen to those much anymore.
 
I'd like to find a closed headphone under $250 I like more than the DJ100, but it hasn't happened yet. Maybe it will be the DT-250, DT-48E or HD-280/380? It seems not many headphones have my favorite sound signature.
 
Maybe the W1000X will have a signature like the DJ100? Wish I knew. Maybe it will take a $500 headphone

 

[firstfall]

Hm, so would you choose the DJ100 over the M50 as well? How is the isolation and instrumental separation on them? And, should I also purchase M50 pads in place of it, if so, where can I order them? Also, I'm not familiar with EQ-ing, but does that help in anyway?
 
(edited.)

 

[Zombie_X]

Hey Travis,
 
Hey hey man don't get mad at me. I feel they are solid at $50. The M50 pads bring them up to maybe $75 to me but not much more. I feel these little things are getting too much hype and praise than they deserve. Metal is not that expensive so that should not factor in at all. The build quality is good no doubt, so no arguments there.
 
As for the SRH-940, I found them to be too bright but offer a lot more in terms of detail and resolution. They butcher music and make it unlistenable to me.
 
Try the DT150 sometime Travis. It's warm and slightly bassy with great detail and extension on both ends.
 
Quote:

DJ100 not worth $75 retail? What? How is the build quality alone not worth a little extra? How many other companies sell a headphone with metal cups for under $100? The V6? Anything else?
 
I'd put the overall sound quality of the Koss Pro DJ 100 (ok, Tony Bennett) with M50 pads in the up to $150-$250 closed headphone category.  Not even the K550, DT-770 Pro 80/600, M50, D2000 or SRH-840/SRH-940 could top it as a favorite. The SRH-940 actually sounded less clear than the DJ100. Weird. I guess those can be "technically" better, but who cares about that. I was impressed with the KRKs, but they're just not as fun as the DJ100 to listen to. Now there's a ton of open headphones that are technically better, but I don't listen to those much anymore.
 
I'd like to find a closed headphone under $250 I like more than the DJ100, but it hasn't happened yet. Maybe it will be the DT-250, DT-48E or HD-280/380? It seems not many headphones have my favorite sound signature.
 
Maybe the W1000X will have a signature like the DJ100? Wish I knew. Maybe it will take a $500 headphone

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

Hey Travis,
 
Hey hey man don't get mad at me. I feel they are solid at $50. The M50 pads bring them up to maybe $75 to me but not much more. I feel these little things are getting too much hype and praise than they deserve. Metal is not that expensive so that should not factor in at all. The build quality is good no doubt, so no arguments there.
 
As for the SRH-940, I found them to be too bright but offer a lot more in terms of detail and resolution. They butcher music and make it unlistenable to me.
 
Try the DT150 sometime Travis. It's warm and slightly bassy with great detail and extension on both ends.
 

No, i'm not mad at!! Just talking and stating my opinion, that's all. Nobody ever agrees here. I'm just sticking up for my favorite headphone because I know it's not for everyone.
Too much hype and praise? Are you joking?  Check out all those thousands of reviews on Amazon for them. Oh wait, there are 26! Then there is that 500 page DJ100 thread..wait it only has 51 pages. Half of those replies are probably from some DJ100 fanboy (ie ME).
Now go look at the Panasonic HTF-600 thread. 169 pages and 2500+ posts. And the DJ100 is over-hyped and over-praised?

If anything it's the most under-appreciated headphone there is. It deserves to be as well known as the Pro4AAT, Porta Pro and KSC75, but it's not. My guess is due to the DJ label. NOTE: I didn't say the HTF-600 is bad. I think anyone can agree it's been over-hyped to death just like the old Kicker HP541.
 
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that they're over-hyped. I've seen this mentioned before and it's confusing. Maybe you're reading too many of my posts

 
My point was that the build quality on the DJ100 is so much better than that of any headphone under $100. I mean, 99% of them are cheap plasticy crap. Now some people claim the DJ100 has poor build quality, but never actually owned them. If metal is so cheap, why don't more companies use more of it? Now even the $250 headphones use cheap plastic. I know that nobody wants a heavy headphone, but at least AKG and Beyer uses some metal in their headphones.
 
On the DJ100 we can just agree to disagree. I'll keep looking for a DJ100 killer that's closed, but in 2 years that hasn't happened.

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

Hm, so would you choose the DJ100 over the M50 as well? How is the isolation and instrumental separation on them? And, should I also purchase M50 pads in place of it, if so, where can I order them? Also, I'm not familiar with EQ-ing, but does that help in anyway?
 
(edited.)

 
I would get the M50 over the DJ100 if I wanted more bass (especially mid-bass) and more treble. If my primary focus was on good mids, I'd suggest the DJ100 with M50 pads. M50 is good, but the DJ100 is a lot more fun for me to listen to.
You can get M50 pads from Sweetwater for under $20. Amazon has them too. Instrument separation on the DJ100 is good, but the KRK KNS-8400 or an open headphone might have the edge. Soundstage on the DJ100 is quite larger with the correct recording and M50 pads. It improves even further with a good computer based DAC and amp.
 
I was trying to EQ the DJ100 today to see if I could get it to sound any better or different, but there's really not anything I would EQ myself. Even EQing the upper mids made them really bad.
Some might prefer to EQ the mid-bass area for some music. I'm perfectly ok with it's sub-bass. The DJ100 also doesn't need any more treble at all.
 
Isolation on the DJ100 with M50 pads is a little worse than the M50 itself due to less clamping force.
 
If you have a Best Buy in your area you can demo the DJ200/100 in the pro audio department with 10 other headphones. Guitar Center might let you demo the KRKs. Amazon is pretty good about returns too. Now they even give you a refund before shipping the item back. That's crazy!

 

[Zombie_X]

Hi Travis,
 
True that it's opinions. As for the HTF-600, I feel they are poo. I like my HARX900 a lot more.
 
I'm not bashing the DJ100, it's just that I don't think of it as highly as some do. It's better than the PRO4AAT by a long mile but you are right, it's not as well known. IMO it's one of three of Koss' beast headphones. I know the MV1 is not the most liked headphone here but I like it a lot. I'd say I like it more than any other Koss headphone. Next I like the PRO4AAA the second most and the DJ100 the least.
 
I should re-phrase what I meant by over hyped. I meant they aren't as good as everyone says they are. I personally think they sound like a $50 headphone.
 
I think that's enough derailing for today
 
Quote:

No, i'm not mad at!! Just talking and stating my opinion, that's all. Nobody ever agrees here. I'm just sticking up for my favorite headphone because I know it's not for everyone.
Too much hype and praise? Are you joking?  Check out all those thousands of reviews on Amazon for them. Oh wait, there are 26! Then there is that 500 page DJ100 thread..wait it only has 51 pages. Half of those replies are probably from some DJ100 fanboy (ie ME).
Now go look at the Panasonic HTF-600 thread. 169 pages and 2500+ posts. And the DJ100 is over-hyped and over-praised?

If anything it's the most under-appreciated headphone there is. It deserves to be as well known as the Pro4AAT, Porta Pro and KSC75, but it's not. My guess is due to the DJ label. NOTE: I didn't say the HTF-600 is bad. I think anyone can agree it's been over-hyped to death just like the old Kicker HP541.
 
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that they're over-hyped. I've seen this mentioned before and it's confusing. Maybe you're reading too many of my posts

 
My point was that the build quality on the DJ100 is so much better than that of any headphone under $100. I mean, 99% of them are cheap plasticy crap. Now some people claim the DJ100 has poor build quality, but never actually owned them. If metal is so cheap, why don't more companies use more of it? Now even the $250 headphones use cheap plastic. I know that nobody wants a heavy headphone, but at least AKG and Beyer uses some metal in their headphones.
 
On the DJ100 we can just agree to disagree. I'll keep looking for a DJ100 killer that's closed, but in 2 years that hasn't happened.

 

[firstfall]

Quote:

 
I would get the M50 over the DJ100 if I wanted more bass (especially mid-bass) and more treble. If my primary focus was on good mids, I'd suggest the DJ100 with M50 pads. M50 is good, but the DJ100 is a lot more fun for me to listen to.
You can get M50 pads from Sweetwater for under $20. Amazon has them too. Instrument separation on the DJ100 is good, but the KRK KNS-8400 or an open headphone might have the edge. Soundstage on the DJ100 is quite larger with the correct recording and M50 pads. It improves even further with a good computer based DAC and amp.
 
I was trying to EQ the DJ100 today to see if I could get it to sound any better or different, but there's really not anything I would EQ myself. Even EQing the upper mids made them really bad.
Some might prefer to EQ the mid-bass area for some music. I'm perfectly ok with it's sub-bass. The DJ100 also doesn't need any more treble at all.
 
Isolation on the DJ100 with M50 pads is a little worse than the M50 itself due to less clamping force.
 
If you have a Best Buy in your area you can demo the DJ200/100 in the pro audio department with 10 other headphones. Guitar Center might let you demo the KRKs. Amazon is pretty good about returns too. Now they even give you a refund before shipping the item back. That's crazy!

 
Hm, if I had to choose, my music focus would be more bass and mid, I feel the DJ100 might be good - but how do you feel about the SRH840 or are there any hp's you would suggest that perform better for my preferences?

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

 
Hm, if I had to choose, my music focus would be more bass and mid, I feel the DJ100 might be good - but how do you feel about the SRH840 or are there any hp's you would suggest that perform better for my preferences?

 
I originally had the SRH-840 and felt it was perfect for me at the time. Then the comfort really got to me. It's heavy and just awkward to wear for me. Listening to it in bed would be impossible because it's too loose on my head.
Due to comfort I took a side-grade to the M50 and missed the mids of the SRH-840. Tried the K240 Studio and settled on the DJ100.
 
K240 Studio is another nice option, but it's semi-open and not a portable. Dirt cheap though. It's harder to drive than the DJ100 and KRKs due to lack of volume on all my portable sources.
 
You can also demo the SRH-940. I liked it, but not for $250. I'm too cheap. It's far more comfortable than the SRH-840.
 
Both should be off your list due to their size. The DJ100 is VERY portable and even somewhat folds up and the cups rotate and can lay flat. It's sort of like a low-profile design. Here's an old picture of it I took:
 

 
The Tony Bennett version was $75 and included a case and detachable cable, but too bad it's up to $100.

 

[firstfall]

Quote:

 
I originally had the SRH-840 and felt it was perfect for me at the time. Then the comfort really got to me. It's heavy and just awkward to wear for me. Listening to it in bed would be impossible because it's too loose on my head.
Due to comfort I took a side-grade to the M50 and missed the mids of the SRH-840. Tried the K240 Studio and settled on the DJ100.
 
K240 Studio is another nice option, but it's semi-open and not a portable. Dirt cheap though. It's harder to drive than the DJ100 and KRKs due to lack of volume on all my portable sources.
 
You can also demo the SRH-940. I liked it, but not for $250. I'm too cheap. It's far more comfortable than the SRH-840.
 
Both should be off your list due to their size. The DJ100 is VERY portable and even somewhat folds up and the cups rotate and can lay flat. It's sort of like a low-profile design. Here's an old picture of it I took:
 

 
The Tony Bennett version was $75 and included a case and detachable cable, but too bad it's up to $100.

 
Since my source is just a regular iPod Nano 6th gen. will the sound still be good since I'm not going to driving it with an amp? I might consider an amp, but not right now. And with the music off, how would you grade the isolation?

 

[Zombie_X]

Hi,
 
The DJ100 does not need an amp so you should be just fine
 
Quote:

 
Since my source is just a regular iPod Nano 6th gen. will the sound still be good since I'm not going to driving it with an amp? I might consider an amp, but not right now. And with the music off, how would you grade the isolation?

 

[kineticwave]

Hey there,
 
Pardon my intrusion but since my musical tastes are similar to the OP's, I was wondering if I was looking for something with a good bass overall (I would prefer a stronger mid-bass over a sub-bass if I had to pick, but having both decent is optimal) and strong mids, what would I be looking at? I don't mind the trebles as long as they aren't too bad. (Not sure if treble affects female vocals...) I'm not looking for something too analytical, but just enough to have instrumental separation (I believe that is the term...).
 
I was contemplating the DJ100 (I think I'll get the Tony Bennett version, never knew it existed!) but since tdockweiler mentioned it being a little weaker in the bass, and the M50 having a V-shaped response, I'm stuck. It's going to be used as an everyday pair so the usual comfort and isolation is a must.

 

[firstfall]

Quote:

Hi,
 
The DJ100 does not need an amp so you should be just fine
 

 
Oh, okay, thanks if I were to get an amp for my laptop though... a normal ASUS N61, as entry level with a budget below $100, what would you suggest? To be honest, I'm not familiar with a typical setup... though you could probably see that. :/