Astell&Kern AK380
Sep 6, 2015 at 3:09 PM Post #1,951 of 9,040
there are tons of relatively inexpensive amps that could be used with the 240 or 380..the vorzuge pureII+ comes to mind...the idea of using a 2500 chord hugo with a 3500 dollar 380 bypassing its DAC and amp is absolutely crazy...if you do not want to use the DAC of your DAP buy a used 120 and pair it with a Hugo...
 
Sep 6, 2015 at 3:53 PM Post #1,952 of 9,040
In a passionate hobby like this, we should go for the best possible sound,and the most marginal improvements. I say this even if it's only the best SQ we prefer.

Price matters and our purchase decision should always start with what we budgeted for. In fact we should even consider if it's of "good value for money" when we are making the decision on our own.

However if I need to convince anyone to buy a certain piece of equipment because the price is cheap or not to because it's priced high. Then it's generally not very relevant to our search for info, knowledge, experience and the joy of being a headfier.
 
Sep 6, 2015 at 11:11 PM Post #1,953 of 9,040
i do understand the sentiment but using the 380 which costs 3500 dollars as a transport is a waste of money that could be better applied elsewhere..i am guilty of spending too much money myself but after reading of several people bragging about buying and using their 380 as a transport i couldnt help but comment
 
Sep 6, 2015 at 11:20 PM Post #1,954 of 9,040
Value for money is important to all of us but each one of us has a different sets of value and priorities. In a head-fi forum, we know how much we are willing to pay for our stuff and its ok no matter how small or how big the amount is.

In forums like this, quality of discussions can deteriorate very quickly once members are distracted by prices. I noticed this in other hobbies too, eg watches. Enthusiasts who want to go to a Patek Philippe thread knows the prices and their perceived values. They want to know everything about the brand and the model they are interested in. Very few serious enthusiasts are interested to find out if the watch is of good values or a waste of money according to others.
 
Sep 6, 2015 at 11:30 PM Post #1,955 of 9,040
In a passionate hobby like this, we should go for the best possible sound,and the most marginal improvements. I say this even if it's only the best SQ we prefer.

Price matters and our purchase decision should always start with what we budgeted for. In fact we should even consider if it's of "good value for money" when we are making the decision on our own.

However if I need to convince anyone to buy a certain piece of equipment because the price is cheap or not to because it's priced high. Then it's generally not very relevant to our search for info, knowledge, experience and the joy of being a headfier.


Also: each person in this hobby should be able to define what she needs. Be that portability, price/performance factor, battery life, great ID3 support, gapless, or even just a great UI. We are all in it together, if not for the same outcome.
 
If we are in it for absolute performance, we had better prepared to prove, subjective bias be damned, that the gear path we choose is the best. You can't say gear A or B is better just because it sounds better to you. If it does, great. But that is the same as saying grape pudding is better than apple pudding because to you, it tastes better. If we spend 3500$ in order to get the top performance, even if in doing so we downplay an impressive 3500$ DAP to a transport for an outboard DAC/amp, AND we tell the world it is best (as in an absolute), we had better be prepared to prove it. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Corollary: if, in educating ourselves beyond our personal biases, we discover that what we proclaimed, even strongly, is incorrect, we had better own up. Especially to ourselves. 
 
The HUGO/AK380 may in fact perform better than the AK380 naked or with something like a Vorzüge PURE II (depending on your output headphone), but it may not. It may be better, or barely better, or even worse. At normal listening levels, it may be exactly the same. In which case, what matters? How well a device is able to reproduce the original file? Or, in spending 7000$ on a system, is it just touchy/feely stuff that is important? That, and the assurance that comes from spending the most?
 
I have neither tried the HUGO/AK380 together, nor measured the combo. But I'll be damned if, at normal listening volumes, the HUGO offers anything above the AK380. Even so, I'll happily concede if/when that gear is measured at the same volumes through the same headphones. The problem, of course, with using the AK380 to an outboard amp (not DAC) is that few, if any, amps out there can keep up to the AK380's absolute, measurable performance. They can better it under load in a few areas, but it is all give/take. And the HUGO may be better. It may be worse. In the end, this thread is a lot of people talking subjective experience as though it is fact. We really should preface our impressions with the disclaimer that it is our opinion that A sounds better than B, and be prepared to have another person suggest that B sounds better than A. 
 
That is how subjective experiences work. 
 
Sep 6, 2015 at 11:31 PM Post #1,956 of 9,040
Value for money is important to all of us but each one of us has a different sets of value and priorities. In a head-fi forum, we know how much we are willing to pay for our stuff and its ok no matter how small or how big the amount is.

In forums like this, quality of discussions can deteriorate very quickly once members are distracted by prices. I noticed this in other hobbies too, eg watches. Enthusiasts who want to go to a Patek Philippe thread knows the prices and their perceived values. They want to know everything about the brand and the model they are interested in. Very few serious enthusiasts are interested to find out if the watch is of good values or a waste of money according to others.


I agree. It maybe envy or sour grapes but their comments do not add value to the thread. We should have an AK 380 owners thread! A cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing .
 
Sep 6, 2015 at 11:59 PM Post #1,957 of 9,040
I agree. It maybe envy or sour grapes but their comments do not add value to the thread. We should have an AK 380 owners thread! A cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing .


LOL, I thought this was the Hugo thread......
 
Sep 7, 2015 at 12:52 AM Post #1,958 of 9,040
 
Also: each person in this hobby should be able to define what she needs. Be that portability, price/performance factor, battery life, great ID3 support, gapless, or even just a great UI. We are all in it together, if not for the same outcome.
 
If we are in it for absolute performance, we had better prepared to prove, subjective bias be damned, that the gear path we choose is the best. You can't say gear A or B is better just because it sounds better to you. If it does, great. But that is the same as saying grape pudding is better than apple pudding because to you, it tastes better. If we spend 3500$ in order to get the top performance, even if in doing so we downplay an impressive 3500$ DAP to a transport for an outboard DAC/amp, AND we tell the world it is best (as in an absolute), we had better be prepared to prove it. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Corollary: if, in educating ourselves beyond our personal biases, we discover that what we proclaimed, even strongly, is incorrect, we had better own up. Especially to ourselves. 
 
The HUGO/AK380 may in fact perform better than the AK380 naked or with something like a Vorzüge PURE II (depending on your output headphone), but it may not. It may be better, or barely better, or even worse. At normal listening levels, it may be exactly the same. In which case, what matters? How well a device is able to reproduce the original file? Or, in spending 7000$ on a system, is it just touchy/feely stuff that is important? That, and the assurance that comes from spending the most?
 
I have neither tried the HUGO/AK380 together, nor measured the combo. But I'll be damned if, at normal listening volumes, the HUGO offers anything above the AK380. Even so, I'll happily concede if/when that gear is measured at the same volumes through the same headphones. The problem, of course, with using the AK380 to an outboard amp (not DAC) is that few, if any, amps out there can keep up to the AK380's absolute, measurable performance. They can better it under load in a few areas, but it is all give/take. And the HUGO may be better. It may be worse. In the end, this thread is a lot of people talking subjective experience as though it is fact. We really should preface our impressions with the disclaimer that it is our opinion that A sounds better than B, and be prepared to have another person suggest that B sounds better than A. 
 
That is how subjective experiences work. 

 
I think many of us (myself included) hardly admit we're gear-holics. My take, comparing the AK380 to the AK380/Hugo is a mute point. It's hardly a dent in an opinion of the AK380 - all one is reviewing is merely the Toslink and the GUI usability. If one wanted to compare the AK380/Hugo to anything then they should compare the stack to something like AK380/Flow or AK380/<whatever that takes Optical In>. And even then such a comparison is also judging an entire DAP solely based on that Toslink.
 
I've come very close to whacking out any post here with the word "Hugo" on it but have held my tongue fingers.
 
Let's share more about the AK380 AS A DAP on this thread.
 
Sep 7, 2015 at 1:00 AM Post #1,959 of 9,040
Thanks AnakChan.  Not to mention via TOSLink you also don't get DSD (not that I care).  So arguably you're also losing functionality (more than the pretty much core functionality that you're bypassing on the AK380 by hooking it up to a Hugo).  But hey, how else do  you get a portable rig that you can call the most expensive?  I'm sure the TOSlink cable used alone costs 1000's.  
 
As a DAP, I like the design of the 380 better than the 240.  It's really moved forward and the 240 now looks dated.  If fact if not for SQ, I'd rather get one of the slimmer models like the AK120ii instead of the 240.  I hope the amp section add-on comes out soon, but it's really only useful for users of high impedance headphones during portable use.  I heard layla's through just the player and it sounded great already.  They're not that hard to drive.  That's pretty much my dream setup.  But right now I'm not willing to pay that price.  
 
Sep 7, 2015 at 10:35 AM Post #1,961 of 9,040
I found the AK380 to sound delightful in terms of finesse, clarity, control, liquidness of sound, space. However some DAPs like the 901 or the Paw Gold, while they have less clarity, feel more powerful and engaging. Not talking about volume, but feeling like there is power / body / authority in the sound. The king of DAPs would be one that can combine the two. The Hugo and Flow kind of approach that but not exactly. Maybe the AK380 plus amp has this sort of perfection, but it is a bit big (no comment on price).
 
Sep 7, 2015 at 4:04 PM Post #1,962 of 9,040
I found the AK380 to sound delightful in terms of finesse, clarity, control, liquidness of sound, space. However some DAPs like the 901 or the Paw Gold, while they have less clarity, feel more powerful and engaging. Not talking about volume, but feeling like there is power / body / authority in the sound. The king of DAPs would be one that can combine the two. The Hugo and Flow kind of approach that but not exactly. Maybe the AK380 plus amp has this sort of perfection, but it is a bit big (no comment on price).

 
My impression largely agrees with you points. 
To my ears, AK380 has deeper soundstage while Paw Gold has deeper bass. Those are essentially the only differences I can tell from A/Bing the two DAPs. 
 
Sep 7, 2015 at 5:58 PM Post #1,963 of 9,040
  there are tons of relatively inexpensive amps that could be used with the 240 or 380..the vorzuge pureII+ comes to mind...the idea of using a 2500 chord hugo with a 3500 dollar 380 bypassing its DAC and amp is absolutely crazy...if you do not want to use the DAC of your DAP buy a used 120 and pair it with a Hugo...

jbrach,
 
I think you misunderstood my question as it was actually intended for shigzeo and that was:
 
"Is there a benefit “sound and/or audio metric wise” if I strictly used an amp vs. a DAC to connect the AK380 player too?  If so why would I benefit from replacing my Cord Hugo with just an amp?"  And to be clear...I'm not bragging about anything... Nor is that my personal style and to be respectful I will leave it at that!  I'm a hardworking stiff just like the next guy.  In America today is Labor day so Happy Labor Day for all the working stiffs!!!
 
For me the AK 380 is a wonderful player and I like it especially when driving the Layla's but it can't drive the HE-1000 or the HD-800's that's why I was asking about the amp... 
 
I honestly don't care if I replace the Cord Hugo with a $200 or $2000 dollar amp. Like so many of us gear heads/audiophiles...I'm chasing the best sounding portable/transportable system I can get and if I can save some usd in the process I'm going to be glad .  BUT it must make an improvement in sound quality that can be measured (and of course be to my liking) and I'm good to go! 
 
Sincerely,
-Speed...
 
Sep 7, 2015 at 6:09 PM Post #1,964 of 9,040
I found the AK380 to sound delightful in terms of finesse, clarity, control, liquidness of sound, space. However some DAPs like the 901 or the Paw Gold, while they have less clarity, feel more powerful and engaging. Not talking about volume, but feeling like there is power / body / authority in the sound. The king of DAPs would be one that can combine the two. The Hugo and Flow kind of approach that but not exactly. Maybe the AK380 plus amp has this sort of perfection, but it is a bit big (no comment on price).

Mimouille,
 
I think you hit the nail right on the head with your comment! A unique combination of clarity, liquidness and something more powerfully engaging.  I would like to think of it as a more visceral experience!  Its the way the HE-1000's cans sound in my view.
 
Sincerely,
-Speed 
 

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