[Uncle Erik]

I found this article (globeandmail.com: Death spurs headphone debate) on a news aggregator this evening. I thought it would be of interest and could lead to an interesting discussion. Here's the article's text:

Quote:

Death spurs headphone debate FIONA MORROW May 15, 2008 VANCOUVER -- The death of a pedestrian in Cranbrook, B.C., on Tuesday has raised the question of how loud is too loud when it comes to listening to iPods and other personal music players. Isaiah Otieno, a 23-year-old student, was killed when he was struck and dragged by a helicopter that crashed to the ground as he was walking to the mailbox. Eyewitnesses reported that Mr. Otieno seemed completely unaware that he was in danger and a friend told reporters that he often listened to music through earbuds (in-ear headphones) with the hood of his sweatshirt pulled up over his head. Concern over safe use of headphones is growing. Last year, Carl Kruger, a Democratic state senator from New York proposed a bill to ban the use of iPods and other electronic devices while crossing the street. Though Mr. Kruger's bill was defeated, his position was echoed last fall by the charity Deafness Research UK, which launched a similar campaign to persuade young people to switch off their personal MP3 players while crossing the road. But Lorienne Jenstad, assistant professor in the school of audiology and speech sciences at the University of British Columbia says that it's too early to draw any conclusions about the degree of risk. "There are a lot of beliefs and assumptions right now on how dangerous this headphone use is, but currently no data to back them up," Prof. Jenstad said. "In our own informal tests, we've found that the range of volume used is very wide - from moderate to levels that are potentially able to cut out all background noise," she said. And if you've got the volume cranked too high, you may be able to tell by the ringing in your ears, said Geordon Hoag, digital music product consultant at Tom Lee Music in Vancouver. "The average downtown street registers at around 60 decibels. A jet plane flying overhead is generally quoted at 120 to 130 decibels. If you are playing your music loud enough to cut out that level of noise, then you have it cranked to a degree that is damaging your hearing." It may also depend on the type of headphones you are wearing, he added. Though the perception is that in-ear headphones are more isolating than over-the-head headphones, the reverse is actually the case. "The seal that surrounds the ears on a good set of traditional phones shuts out more external noise," Mr. Hoag said. Still, research on headphone use has focused on hearing loss, for a reason: Other safety issues are "pretty obvious," said Linda Polka, associate professor in the school of communication science and disorders at McGill University. "I see people riding bikes while listening to iPods, and it's horrific. You shouldn't need to educate people about that."

 

[TheMarchingMule]

Rats, you beat me to making this thread. But I don't like how vague the thread title is.

Here is another source to read from:
No Joke: Youth Killed By a Helicopter While Getting His Mail Sparks Debate About Headphone Safety

And here is a forum already talking about it:
Youth Hit By a Helicopter While Listening to Headphones - Overclock.net - Overclocking.net

 

[CanMad]

I was almost hit by a train when the electronic gates that are supposed to shut weren't working, wearing my Ety's. Needless to say I now look both ways when crossing railway tracks.

 

[megawzrd]

Its a freak accident...but a law to ban or limit use as a result is complete over reaction. The second to last sentence regarding bike riding while listening to headphones is just sad. I do and I am sure many others hear have worn headphones while doing a multitude of daily activities in a conscious manner. Bottom line is life has its risks...using headphones and listening to ipods is just another potential cause for a accident/death on a never ending list.

Doesn't the FTC require headphone companies to include warning statements of certain activities already; and advise against overly loud volumes for hearing damage or while doing certain activities? "use at your own risk"?

 

[synaesthetic]

I think we need to fight for our freedom to die in a blaze of stupidity.

 

[riceboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by megawzrd /img/forum/go_quote.gif Its a freak accident...but a law to ban or limit use as a result is complete over reaction. The second to last sentence regarding bike riding while listening to headphones is just sad. I do and I am sure many others hear have worn headphones while doing a multitude of daily activities in a conscious manner. Bottom line is life has its risks...using headphones and listening to ipods is just another potential cause for a accident/death on a never ending list. Doesn't the FTC require headphone companies to include warning statements of certain activities already; and advise against overly loud volumes for hearing damage or while doing certain activities? "use at your own risk"?

I agree that it is an over reaction to have a law or ban. If someone is walking down the street damaging their hearing with their IEMs, then it should be their right too. Allow them to have free will to make those types of choices

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by riceboy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree that it is an over reaction to have a law or ban. If someone is walking down the street damaging their hearing with their IEMs, then it should be their right too. Allow them to have free will to make those types of choices

You know that old saying, "You can't legislate morality?" Well, you can't legislate common sense, either.

I've heard of a number of cases in which people have been killed by vending machines. How? By tipping the machine precariously forward in the attempt to get a free can of soda to fall out of it. I'm not sure the death of someone that stupid is really a great loss to society.

I'm all for warnings in the manuals and packaging that come with headphones. I would welcome a public service campaign in the media. Legislation that will have absolutely no effect? Not so much.

Edit: Aside from which, all iPods come with a volume limiting feature, which can be password protected so that children can't raise the volume limit. If people don't listen at reasonable levels, and don't make sure that their children are protected from excessive volume, would a law suddenly induce them to become responsible?

 

[nibiyabi]

So by this logic . . . deaf people can't cross the street or ride bikes, right?

 

[chadbang]

I don't know if there's a law in Calif. about driving with headphones on or not, so I don't do it. Seems to me there should be as I deem it dangerous. I remember this safety issue coming up years ago during the dawn of the Walkman. Riding bikes, jogging etc. People should use common sense and keep their eyes open. As far as the need for a law when it comes to walking or running.... I think we have enough damn laws floating around these days.

 

[synaesthetic]

There are laws against driving with headphones in most states. Seems silly to me since most modern cars are soundproofed and you can't hear much outside them anyway.

I wear my ER-4Ps all the time when out and about alone. I have never had a problem because I have eyes and can see.

 

[aaron313]

Haven't these idiots ever heard of looking both ways before crossing?

 

[shigzeo]

a deaf person is probably not nearly as self-centred as a person wearing headphones though. headphones by nature bring you to listen to in your head sounds. you walk faster or slower, but you do not pay attention to your surroundings in the same way. you are listening. even passively, your brain is computing the information, rather than paying attention.

deaf people is not a good comparison at all to people using headphones. as for 'doing what you like' - think about it this way: if doing what you like endangers others around you, perhaps you really should soften up on these poor legislators. walking down the street with headphones: you get hit, you die. okay cool, it was your own negligence that led to your death or injury.

but, the person who is driving the car or riding the bicycle in front of which you strode is now injured or their car is ruined or they had to swerve to miss you. perhaps you escape okay, but when does the utilitarian principle of doing good to those around you come in?

i too wear them when 'riding a bike'. that means a shopping bike on the paved path. i would never take my player out to the road. as long as you are tuned outside of what makes a safe environment to you and especially to others around your person, something is wrong and should be attended to by legislation if possible.

there is more to this debate than what has been discussed here. i think too from our perspective: we are protecting our love: music on the go or hifi on the hoof for instance. the problem is that it is hard to see past our personal desires and look into safety. and i wonder at this.

 

[ecclesand]

Killed by a crashing helicopter...headphones or not, I think it was just this poor unlucky person's time to go.

 

[Kirosia]

We should ban helicopters

 

[stewtheking]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecclesand /img/forum/go_quote.gif Killed by a crashing helicopter...headphones or not, I think it was just this poor unlucky person's time to go.

QFT. This story adds NOTHING to the debate about headphones in traffic...