Are XIN fans less secure than Hornet fans?

[Tuarreg]

Such an interesting contrast between the "Hornet" thread titled: "Stereophile September - Hornet - Rave Review by Sam Tellig" as opposed to the XIN one titled: "Those who waiting Xin amp, post and get your date of arrival !"

Hornet lovers seem more secure with their choice, even when they know they do not have the latest mod of their amp. Many are so satisfied with their original Hornet that they are not easily giving into getting them modifed... even for free.

Contrast that with XIN lovers who after waiting months on end for their amp to return from previous "tweaks", then sending them back for yet more tweaks within days, all on the word of others! I suspect they will never be truely happy with their amp, because there will always be another tweak around the corner!

Just an observation...

Tuarreg

 

[cire]

A thread titled: "Stereophile September - Hornet - Rave Review by Sam Tellig" makes Hornet owners seem much more insecure as they are trying to justify their purchase. Your post might show that Xin amp owners are more insecure, but considering the fact that Xin amps also have more user control, it is targeted towards those with more dynamic tastes. Not only that, Xin amps have always offered tweaks, so his customers are more comfortable with trying different things, whereas the Hornet has one tweak that has been released only somewhat recently.

I don't understand the purpose of this thread as all it does is attack the tastes' of Xin's customers.

Disclaimer: I do not own any Xin, or RS Audio amps.

 

[GreatDane]

And then there's this thread:

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=199254

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover Compared to the hornet .... the PINT has a bigger and more precise soundstage, better dynamics, better bass and a much greater degree of coherency and refinement. The sound of the PINT is very seamless compared to the hornet .... which seemed alternately congested in the lower mids and to harsh in the lower/ mid treble during my audition.

ouch

all in good fun

 

[Tuarreg]

Yep, lighten up... this is all for fun. We are ALL Head-fiable whacks who love our rigs. Well, most of us. Heh.

Tuarreg

 

[Nick Christy]

I think the big difference is the lead times from ordering. I think it's pretty natural for most people to start thinking "did i do the right thing?" as soon as they have ordered a product.

With Ray that lasts about 5 days until you get the amp, then you get to listen to it and in most cases people seem to love what they hear. So with the Hornet you have a 5 day "uncertainty window" where people will seize on any negativity and panic. With Xin that window at the moment is about two months.

Additionally Ray delivers on his promises of delivery and Xin doesnt, so Xin generates more negative feelings.

As for the upgrades - Xin's are announced by him as addressing fundamental weaknesses in the design and he recommends you get them, whereas Ray's upgrade (singular) seems more of an attempt to change the sonic characteristics of the amp. Those who like the current sound therefore dont have a "need" to return their amps to Ray.

Underlying both though seems to be mostly happy people, with Xin, particularly supermicro owners, who seem to think they sound great.

I cancelled my order with Xin because after two month's of broken promises on shipping, and a series of tweaks, every single one of which was announced as the last, my patience was exhausted. I'd rather have a 99% amp that i can listen to than a 100% amp sitting on his workbench.

I just ordered a Hornet and I am sure I will love it.

 

[aluren]

well rather than saying xin fans are insecure and hornet fans are. i would say that xin fans are never happy, always thinking about the new tweaks, opamp rolling, etc... while hornet fans are happily enjoying their music... i think once xin does have a finished product, reviews are gonna come in and people will hear about his amps a little more. but i think that 'waiting for xin amps' thread really hurt xin's reputation here. and the only way he can get it back is with a kick ass amp and good customer service. but the latter seems almost impossible.

 

[GreatDane]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aluren ... but i think that 'waiting for xin amps' thread really hurt xin's reputation here. and the only way he can get it back is with a kick ass amp and good customer service. but the latter seems almost impossible.

I totally agree with that. I'd been reading about Xins SuperMacro for many, many months. It took me a few months to finally decide between the Mini and Macro. I think there was a big delay last Nov./Dec. period when he was discounting them(new release sale??). That sort of scared me away but I took a chance hoping for better srvice this time...IT WAS WORSE!

Yes, I'll be sending my SuperMini back to Xin in a few days...after my PC MKIII-USB arrives.

I spoil myself...and it's not even Christmas yet.

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aluren but i think that 'waiting for xin amps' thread really hurt xin's reputation here. and the only way he can get it back is with a kick ass amp and good customer service. but the latter seems almost impossible.

I totally agree!
The last months of XIN's tweaking, empty promises and no delivery have hurt his reputation badly. And he need to do something really extra to repair this loss...

 

[cerbie]

IMO, Xin needs someone with a social mind to do PR and planning of releases. The technical side he's clearly got down.

Don't have upgrade after upgrade after upgrade. Set a limit of 2-3 months, not counting beta testing guys (Hiflight, Goto, couple others), between public upgrades, and emphasize the progress, rather than what may have been done wrong in the past.

Xin Feng is clearly seeking for perfection, so not getting it just right shows something is bad, and fundamentally wrong. Well, you can't get it just right in a short time frame; so get it good enough, release it, then later have a more mature revision or two.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Christy I'd rather have a 99% amp that i can listen to than a 100% amp sitting on his workbench.

I'm sure Ray Samuels has had a few moments where he thought (or maybe even exclaimed aloud), "****, I can't believe I released it with <insert something not as good as he can do now>!" But for PR, you don't want to go and say that, if you want customers to be happy. It is better to wait until you've got that and other stuff fixed, and then officially make a new, proven, revision, and offer upgrades of the old one then; shipping the previously proven design up to that point.

 

[jcn3]

i think we all end up with some agenda or another -- witness team "this" and team "that."

let's face it -- we're all insecure in some way or another. that's why we churn through so much stuff . . .

 

[warrior05]

i got myself a supermacro 3v3 and loved it but there were small details that detracted. when headphones are plugged in the on/off switch was awkward to get at. the xfeed switch was awkward to get at due to its placement. i've never been a fan of the battery contacts both on the pcb and the contacts on the back plate. based purely on sound though - i was a big fan.

then i got my hornet. dirt simple, wonderful design through and through and love the sound. the amp is tiny and feels like it'll just last a lifetime where my sm has a feeling of fragility. i have my hornet mated to my imod and it drives my K701s wonderfully. i don't even bother looking at portable amps anymore. imo the hornet is an elegant execution of form following function. in comparison i find the sm a bit... flaky.

insecure? nah. just thoroughly satisfied and don't feel the need to look elsewhere.

 

[kaushama]

How about a company, where Dr.XIN is doing research\designing of electronics of the amp (research division) and Mr.RAY is doing final production of line with business management (business division) , markecting and PR etc!!!

Shall we invite them to be co-CEOs of the company?

We will be feeling secure like nothing and will be in audio ecstasy! Won't we?

LOL

 

[kaushama]

And with Mr.RAY's timely product announcement audio industry will march forward in bringing new concepts in amp line "XINET". Company will resemble Microsoft and will have progressively improved end-user products. XINET98, XINET millennium, XINET XP and XINET vista coming..... Rather than having one HORNET for some time.
When they are so successful they might introduce "product activation" too.

OOPsi me!!

 

[erikzen]

I always got the feeling the Xin was very transparent. He lays all his cards on the table and everyone knows when he's had problems or when he thinks he's hit a home run. I has also always struck me as something of an imperfect perfectionist. He's always trying to perfect the sound of his amps, but there always seems to be some detail missing.

I've had a few Xin amps. I can't say I ever felt insecure about owning each individual product, but when I took the whole Xin experience in as a whole, I started to feel a bit insecure. I got tired of chasing my tail trying to figure out which was the latest version and which was a tweak of the latest version and which was a tweak of a tweak of the latest version. I think I gave up with SuperMicro V6IID or whatever it was. I also had one of the original SuperDuals which them became the SuperMacro, which then became the SuperMacro III, with upgrades and discounts for previous purchases. At one point I ended up with two SuperMacros because of how he did his upgrades, then he releaed a new version, which was....Like I said, I got tired of chasing my tail.

As far as customer service goes, I always found Xin to be reliable in the sense that he will always deliver a decent product eventually. Even if he didn't respond directly to every email I sent him, he always posted on his website so if there were delays you knew it. It seems from what I've read that this latest batch of amps seems to have the most delays in the past three years or so I've been following Xin's products. I also think they are his most ambitious and I am anxious to get to hear some of his latest offerings some time soon.

One last note, I think the typical Xin customer enjoys all the mods and revisions. In some ways it's exciting; you're always anticipating some kind of tweak or modified opamp. For me it just got tiresome after a while.

 

[mirumu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaushama How about a company, where Dr.XIN is doing research\designing of electronics of the amp (research division) and Mr.RAY is doing final production of line with business management (business division) , markecting and PR etc!!! Shall we invite them to be co-CEOs of the company? We will be feeling secure like nothing and will be in audio ecstasy! Won't we? LOL

I think the problem with that idea is that Ray is perfectly capable of designing top notch amps on his own and probably couldn't be bothered running the office all the time anyway (I know I couldn't)

I don't think Xin needs a lot of help, just someone to talk to people (quick responses are good) and make sure unfinished products aren't released.