[royhendo]

How do people explain Andy Sciach, founder of ACS, saying he prefers their 2-driver T2 to their triple driver T1?

Surely it's all about the 'plug tunin', no?

You have to think that, as the number of drivers increases (to 6 in the JH13 Pro already), their size decreases, and their quality/availability/ubiquity increases, that it'll be the quality of the cross over and fine tuning that separates the wheat from the chaff.

It's interesting to watch the market develop. It fits the general consumer tech hardware pattern nicely - in 10 years' time it'll be possible to pick up something of the JH13's quality for £100, and there will be a healthy secondary market for 2nd hand customs through reshelling services becoming more widely available, and a healthy 'armature recycling' phenomenon as hobbyists get serious and tuning skills flood into the market.

Interesting times ahead for music lovers. Everyone will have easy access to customs in a few years.

 

[FYJX]

when we refer to multiple driver IEM's, It's usually balanced armature drivers. Dynamic drivers work different and are able to cover the frequency range from high to low. Balanced armatures have an extreme potential for performance when tuned properly, but it's harder to cover the whole range with just one BA driver, so multiple are added.

There hasn't, even till today an earphone that has dual dynamic drivers, it's just not necessary. They are fine by themselves, there are however dual dynamic driver headphones. PHiaton PS320

 

[trunolimit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaoDi /img/forum/go_quote.gif when we refer to multiple driver IEM's, It's usually balanced armature drivers. Dynamic drivers work different and are able to cover the frequency range from high to low. Balanced armatures have an extreme potential for performance when tuned properly, but it's harder to cover the whole range with just one BA driver, so multiple are added. There hasn't, even till today an earphone that has dual dynamic drivers, it's just not necessary. They are fine by themselves, there are however dual dynamic driver headphones. PHiaton PS320

so when looking for single driver headphones i want dynamic not armature?

 

[bakhtiar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew.C /img/forum/go_quote.gif ER4p,s,b.. all three of them are single drivered.. with an amp, they can instantly kill some double or even triple drivers earphones.

Agreed, I also can put my PFEs + D10 in the equation.

Anyway, our ears will decide, not the numbers of drivers or values in specs.

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaoDi /img/forum/go_quote.gif There hasn't, even till today an earphone that has dual dynamic drivers, it's just not necessary.

I assume you were probably too young when Panasonic / Technics RP-HV70/80/100 hit the market 20 years ago.

Not only dual dynamic earphones have been made, they actually achieved some success at their time. Back in the day Japaneses were actually quite serious about making good earphone. Well, not anymore

 

[Spyro]

Quality of the drivers matters too. After that it comes down to accuracy versus fun and personal preference in the sound sig.

To my knowledge, there is no IEM out there custom or universal that is as accurate as a properly amped ER4S which is a single driver. Not saying this means it will sound "the best" but that is a pretty significant claim for Etymotic to hang their hat on.

 

[The_Blood_Raven]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trunolimit /img/forum/go_quote.gif so when looking for single driver headphones i want dynamic not armature?

Careful with that thinking. A dynamic driver isn't necessarily better than a BA driver. A dynamic driver will produce more headphone-like bass, but it requires fine tuning and a good design to make them into successful IEMs. A lot of cheaper/crappy IEMs use dynamic drivers that are just plain bad drivers with a bad implementation. Then you have the JCV/Victor HP-FX500 and Sennheiser IE6/7/8s which produce amazing quantity and quality of bass, with their dynamic driver, without sacrificing else where.

 

[ibis99]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Opentoe /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've never heard any single driver model sounding better than a 3 driver model. I've had many high quality single and double models and was not until I listened to a couple of three's that I started to appreciate the sound. I'm talking about 10-12 different models.

My PFE's sound better than my SE530's.

 

[derek8555]

LOL this thread is starting to turn into a warzone...

I think it's all up to personal preference which IEM is better at the end of the day, but unarguably (IMHO) that the more drivers you put in to cover the frequency range --given the crossover cct is designed accordingly -- the more closer you should approach a perfect transient response across that frequency range.

The ER4 is perfectly flat? No not yet, they still roll off badly at the top end. But perhaps if you cover that frequency range with another BA that has absolute flatness up to 20kHz...

 

[jaw2ek]

IIRC, Klipsch custom 2 is a dual driver without a crossover. It has a rich sound, but the highs sound kind of odd sometimes...

 

[trunolimit]

If the IE6 weren't 250 bucks I'd consider them but that is another draw back of multi driver IEM, they are expensive. (not that IE's are multi driver)

 

[mvw2]

Accurate is a bad term to use with the ER4. They are actually somewhat dirty. Something like the PFE is quite a bit more accurate then the ER4 being a good bit cleaner and exact in note and transmitting the minutest of details. The ER4 by contrast is thicker and noisier, but it's more even in presentation. It sounds very well balanced and very nantural/neutral sounding. The PFE in contrast is very short on note and very energetic and dynamic in presentation. Outpu seems effortless and without limit, especially amped. The PFE can get rather loud and do so feeling like it took no effort at all. The high energy presentation is fun but doesn't sound dynamically balanced. The ER4 also has a great stage presence and is very good with placement and separation, something the PFE is not great at. It just isn't the cleanest, most accurate sound out there. It simply isn't. It mainly wins because it was well engineered and very balanced in presentation.

I still consider my ER4S as one of the best IEMs I've owned. Etymotic build a very good IEM. It just isn't god. I own the TF10 now, and it is a superior product in most ways. The TF10 has some of the dynamic range and accuracy of the PFE but in a little thicker, more even presentation. Frequency response is also more even and extended in both directions. Stage space is good with excellent placement and separation, although it doesn't match the depth as well as the ER4S. I don't think the TF10 is god either. It does a lot of things well, but even it lacks a couple qualities I would like to see, and that's probably more a matter of choice of the specific drivers used or implementation of those drivers in some way.

 

[mvw2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trunolimit /img/forum/go_quote.gif If the IE6 weren't 250 bucks I'd consider them but that is another draw back of multi driver IEM, they are expensive. (not that IE's are multi driver)

You might want to look around for better pricing, unless you're constraining yourself to authorized sellers.

 

[FYJX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trunolimit /img/forum/go_quote.gif If the IE6 weren't 250 bucks I'd consider them but that is another draw back of multi driver IEM, they are expensive. (not that IE's are multi driver)

Dual drivers can be extremely affordable, for example the Klipsch Custom 2 mentioned is only $80, along with the ADDIEM.

 

[FYJX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trunolimit /img/forum/go_quote.gif so when looking for single driver headphones i want dynamic not armature?

Not necessarily. Yes, dynamic drivers usually tend to have a wider frequency band coverage compared to a BA driver. But BA drivers are able to put out extremely detailed and precise reproduction, also an extremely large decibel level without eating up the charge on your source.

So there's pros and cons for both, singe armature drivers tend to lack low end with the exception of some extremely well tuned single drivers like the PFE, while dynamic drivers being able to offer a large quantity of low end without a problem, the reproduction usually tends to lack detail but also exceptions like the Sennheiser IE7 and IE8 rule out that.