[Sherwood]

Almost one million of those Muslims are in London, however, not distributed amongst small towns.

I was living in London working with Turkish immigrants to help integrate them into British culture. I assure you I am intimately familiar with the demographic distribution of Muslims in your home country. That's all beside the point however, because regardless of their distribution they don't have power to affect the ministry of education directly, even in a proportional system. That's all I'm saying. Minority groups have a great deal of influence over educational policy in the us, especially since policy decisions are regional. That's why demographics are more important here than there.

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif Almost one million of those Muslims are in London, however, not distributed amongst small towns. I was living in London working with Turkish immigrants to help integrate them into British culture. I assure you I am intimately familiar with the demographic distribution of Muslims in your home country. That's all beside the point however, because regardless of their distribution they don't have power to affect the ministry of education directly, even in a proportional system. That's all I'm saying. Minority groups have a great deal of influence over educational policy in the us, especially since policy decisions are regional. That's why demographics are more important here than there.

Okay well as I say I say it how I see it; you hear about riots up north and living there for some 20 years saw the growth first hand.

How do blacks and hispanics despite there numbers have a say on school and more predominantly school disiplin? Ethnicity and religion aside this is America and this is the school system we put forth for our occupents. Hitler tried to change Europe and we stopped him, yet blacks and hispanics are changing America and we can't do anything about it? The influx of these ethnic groups leads to crime, murder and rape, it's a pandemic in short but no action?

 

[earthpeople]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonderwall /img/forum/go_quote.gif As much as I don't like people in general, I have to believe that most of the bystanders did not realize it was rape. The things drunk chicks will do, yes even at 15, is rather disgusting. I'm sure the guys who did this were most likely banking on that.

I understand what you're saying, but according to other news reports that I've read, the girl was beat pretty bad too. Sure, you may think the girl is just a whore if she was just f-ing around, but if she's getting beat up so bad that she was "critical condition" when she was transported to the hospital, you would think someone would see that as more than just sex with a bunch of guys.

But I do agree with you about responsibility and drinking. As horrible as it is to have that happen, the girl isn't completely innocent.

 

[catscratch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif So, the other option is do nothing, & let a 15 yr old get gang raped & beat senseless.. Screw the I net, I would have done something.. I was 250 as a senior, with a awful temper, benching over 400, & strong as hell.. With my adrenaline on tilt.. All 4 or 7 would have got whupped or ran out of there like cowards they are.. I don't think about what if.. I think in the now.. a 15 yr old is getting pummeled & gang rapped. You do something.. If those 10 who watched had balls they all would have jumped in.. & the cowards would have ran. Again, imagine if that was your friend, sister, or daughter..

That's my point. The standard that applies to you - 250, benching 400, and obviously being able to take care of yourself - does not apply to everybody that isn't like you. You may have had the power to stop these guys. Others do not. And you can't expect them to try when trying, for them, is obviously suicide.

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Uh, yeah, I'm going to have to call you out on that crap. The parents are the very reason that schools have no authority. We are very limited in what we can do as punishment, because we live in a society of lawsuit-happy deadbeat parents. Schools are doing all they can to teach, but they are only 1/3 of the equation. Parents and students being the other 2/3. Again, this is crap. Do not blame the schools for the failings of parents.

That it's the parents' responsibility (fault) is exactly what I'm saying. However, wherever I've interacted with children (I am Australian and currently living in Japan) I've seen that school is soul-destroying. I've had wonderful, bright and intelligent friends come out of top universities essentially brain-dead, after high-school had thoroughly de-moralised them. On the other side, I know parents who have taken much more interest in their child's development, in some cases sending them to, say, a Montessori (sp?) school, which allows them to develop and learn better, to small, very focussed day care houses (one which I teach at) all the way through to entirely home-schooling them, and the result has ALWAYS been better, both in the child's abilities at school subjects through to their behaviour and spiritual development.

 

[marvin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif How do blacks and hispanics despite there numbers have a say on school and more predominantly school discipline?

Look at the population distributions.

And combine that with white flight and local school control. That's how minorities have control of many school districts, along with the usual problems when it happens.

On the positive side, the 'terrible public schools' issue doesn't affect all public schools. Notably, it has minimal effects on states like New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, etc. In Texas, even podunk middle of nowhere schools in poor rural areas are rated as high achieving.

Really, it's a problem that's mostly concentrated to a few areas. Unfortunately, those areas cover most major cities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by squid+ /img/forum/go_quote.gif But I do agree with you about responsibility and drinking. As horrible as it is to have that happen, the girl isn't completely innocent.

Sorry, but completely disagree. The girl is innocent because getting drunk off your rocker is not consent to being beaten, robbed, and gang raped. Now stupid, yes, the girl was definitely stupid.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's my point. The standard that applies to you - 250, benching 400, and obviously being able to take care of yourself - does not apply to everybody that isn't like you. You may have had the power to stop these guys. Others do not. And you can't expect them to try when trying, for them, is obviously suicide.

True.. But if those 10 banded together to do something it would have stopped.. There are power in numbers.. I doubt I could fend off 10 out raged teenagers.. I got involved before, on a lesser scale, which almost lead to a fist fight.. There is just a meter in me, when it reaches a certain point I go off.. I don't take disrepect of me or others lightly.. BS or unfairness.. I have a very bad temper, but must be pushed to certain point..

 

[kool bubba ice]

& under age drinking is a problem.. No 15 yr old should be drinking period..

 

[RockCity]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif So, the other option is do nothing, & let a 15 yr old get gang raped & beat senseless.. Screw the I net, I would have done something.. I was 250 as a senior, with a awful temper, benching over 400, & strong as hell.. With my adrenaline on tilt.. All 4 or 7 would have got whupped or ran out of there like cowards they are.. I don't think about what if.. I think in the now.. a 15 yr old is getting pummeled & gang rapped. You do something.. If those 10 who watched had balls they all would have jumped in.. & the cowards would have ran. Again, imagine if that was your friend, sister, or daughter..

As a fellow gym rat, you come off sounding as someone who's never been in a real situation before. There is a wide difference between physical training and brawling. You should realize one can never strengthen their head or neck the same way they do their abs or pecs. It only takes one person to distract you while a friend knocks you down from behind. Once you're down Lord knows what they can do to you. I guess I'm bringing this up because I think it's dangerous to run solely on testosterone. The human body is fragile and an important part of physical training is to understand its limits rather than try to amplify it.

 

[roadtonowhere08]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif That it's the parents' responsibility (fault) is exactly what I'm saying. However, wherever I've interacted with children (I am Australian and currently living in Japan) I've seen that school is soul-destroying. I've had wonderful, bright and intelligent friends come out of top universities essentially brain-dead, after high-school had thoroughly de-moralised them. On the other side, I know parents who have taken much more interest in their child's development, in some cases sending them to, say, a Montessori (sp?) school, which allows them to develop and learn better, to small, very focussed day care houses (one which I teach at) all the way through to entirely home-schooling them, and the result has ALWAYS been better, both in the child's abilities at school subjects through to their behaviour and spiritual development.

Again, you are missing the point. It is not the school that is "de-moralizing" students. Most (not all, obviously) teachers care for their students and want them to do well. The problem with your comparison is that you are comparing a "come one, come all" system (public schools) to a "I am a caring parent, and I want my student to succeed at all costs" system (home school and Montessori). It is not a valid comparison, period.

If you really get down to it, it is ludicrous to even entertain the idea that the schools are to blame for destroying the souls of students. It is the students and the parents that are tarnishing the reputation of schools. The teaching practices and subjects have not changed; the students have.

 

[jonathanjong]

cf. Kitty Gernovese.

It's called diffusion of responsibility. Darley and Latane ran the classic studies on the phenomenon.

 

[Zodduska]

I agree with you in principal roatonowhere up until..

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The teaching practices and subjects have not changed; the students have.

Are you serious? All throughout my school career as a student in the late 80s and 90s the curriculum was always in an ever changing experimental flux and as I understand it remains in such a state today. I hear things from retired math teachers about how students are no longer required to remember dates because they can always look it up on wikipedia, no longer required to work out math on paper because of calculators etc etc.

2/3rds of the blame for poor results does lie with Parents and the Students but to say the school system is blameless is turning a blind eye.

 

[roadtonowhere08]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodduska /img/forum/go_quote.gif Are you serious???

Let me clarify: I am not going all the way back to one room schoolhouses, if that is what you are thinking. I am saying that the approach to education, at the very foundation, is pretty much the same: teach to the middle, intervention for the struggling, and stretch the minds of the advanced. Sure, there will always be the prevailing method/philosophy du jour, but in reality, the foundation is still there.

By contrast, attitudes of parents and students have changed dramatically in just a few decades. It varies from location to location obviously, but teachers who teach the neighborhood kids are met with a lot more resistance than they used to, that is for sure.

 

[Zodduska]

Understood, thanks for clearing it up. I agree that most teachers I've encountered do try to do their best to help and educate the students, kinda sucks to hear that they are met with so much resistance these days.

 

[roadtonowhere08]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodduska /img/forum/go_quote.gif Understood, thanks for clearing it up. I agree that most teachers I've encountered do try to do their best to help and educate the students, kinda sucks to hear that they are met with so much resistance these days.

I have to be honest. I teach the neighborhood kids, and they are such good teenagers. I do not have one student that I dislike. Sure they talk way too much, but I enjoy my job immensely. Our school does a great job of expelling troublesome kids, so that helps a great deal.

Having said this, I am the minority in large metropolitan areas. I have a great admiration for teachers that teach in schools that are less fortunate. I hear many stories from all over of teachers that have to deal with classes where the hardworking students are the minority. They try their best to make an impression, but when the apathy is so prevalent, there is little they can do, because they have been stripped of their authority by the state and local community culture.

That is where I am coming from. No doubt that schools are not perfect, but when you compare them to the parents and students, there is no question where things are going wrong.