Are audiophiles really music lovers or just geeks with money to spend?
Aug 9, 2008 at 10:31 PM Post #76 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by QQQ /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Kees, i thought i explained my point of view in the post above.
Yes, Audiophiles don't love music.



I am an "audiophile" and I love music, so you are evidently and undeniably wrong.
Both sides go very well together.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by QQQ /img/forum/go_quote.gif
To me it's even a offensive term. Any "-philia" is not attracting to me. Any "-philia" is obsession and obsession is not a love.


"Audiophile" is a nickname. The meaning is supposed to be known and also the fact that it is an exaggeration and that it's meant to be used in (semi) jest. Not literally and seriously.
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Aug 9, 2008 at 11:27 PM Post #79 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by elrod-tom /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I think that folks who spend less money on music, equipment, and so on are demonstrating that they place less of a priority on music than someone with equal means who spends significantly more. Ergo, they would seem (generally, with exceptions as noted before) to "enjoy" music less than someone who makes a larger commitment of resources to music and gear. This seems obvious to me...don't know why it doesn't to you.


So, even if a person enjoys their music just fine with $30 worth of gear, if they don't spend thousands of dollars on equipment, they don't like music as much as someone who does?

That's sort of backwards to me - if they like their music with $30 worth of gear, why would they feel the need to spend more? Sort of like saying someone who races a Corvette doesn't love racing as much as someone who races a Ferrari, because the Corvette cost less than the Ferrari. The logic just doesn't work to me, and given the fact that you evidently feel money is what determines how much someone can enjoy a given hobby, I don't much feel the need to follow the issue with someone who accuses me of arrogance while believing what you evidently do.

Good day.
 
Aug 9, 2008 at 11:32 PM Post #81 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kees /img/forum/go_quote.gif
So if I understand it correctly, you are only here to pick a fight.
I think you could use some professional help, really.
But I'm afraid that might be just a bit too expensive and elitist for you to seriously consider.
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Besides, you might get civilized, and where's the fun in that, right? Wouldn't fit your image at all.
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No, not really. Reading comprehension might help a bit. It just boggles me that so many people here feel that how much one enjoys music is directly related to how much they spend, when one of the people voicing that opinion completely invalidates that statement by saying he wouldn't give up music if he couldn't have his entire setup - even if that'd place him on the same level as *gasp* those who must not love music as much as him because they didn't spend as much money on their gear as he did!

The sheer arrogance and hypocrisy is stunning.

If someone actually thinks that, because they spend $50,000 on a hobby, that they somehow appreciate it more than a guy who is perfectly happy with a $50 rig, I've got nothing to discuss with them, simple as that. The viewpoints are just too different, and show such a huge difference in how one goes through life, that there's not a chance I'd ever agree with that person on anything.
 
Aug 10, 2008 at 12:04 AM Post #83 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by elrod-tom /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Well, gosh folks...I think we've found ourselves a troll.



I don’t know about troll, but everyone has seen or met the stereotype. In most of his posts, he’s been clear that he “thinks differently” or tells his audience “they may think him strange.” Personally, I have not seen it yet.

He’s like the guy at the party in your personal space, slurring about how crrazzzy he is. It’s been my observation for every one guy advertising he’s freethinking, crrazzzy or different, there are 30 who actually are.


Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I'm a music lover and an audiophile. But in that order. I get as much out of a Caruso record from 1908 as I do an SACD from 2008. The music is what matters.


Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I play fifty cent 78s on a suitcase Victrola with a steel needle on the patio of Starbucks on the weekend. Does that count?

See ya
Steve



Steve, have you seen Werner Herzog's Fitzcarraldo? You'd love it.
It's about a rubber speculator in the Amazon. Actually, he only wants to find the rubber to finance an opera house in the middle of oblivion. His dream is to get Caruso to sing there. He literally moves mountains to to accomplish his dream. Fitz, the speculator, is beyond obsessed. He hauls a giant Victrola around, with a single Caruso recording, and uses it to woo the natives and impress the colonialist. The film is an epic and beautifully shot. Check it out. Everyone who's a bit spastic about music should:

Fitzcarraldo (1982)
 
Aug 10, 2008 at 12:13 AM Post #84 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by Samgotit /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I don’t know about troll, but everyone has seen or met the stereotype. In most of his posts, he’s been clear that he “thinks differently” or tells his audience “they may think him strange.” Personally, I have not seen it yet.

He’s like the guy at the party in your personal space, slurring about how crrazzzy he is. It’s been my observation for every one guy advertising he’s freethinking, crrazzzy or different, there are 30 who actually are.



No, not really, I just find that around here, I have to make that disclaimer because if I don't, people tend to have little fits.
 
Aug 10, 2008 at 12:35 AM Post #85 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by Samgotit /img/forum/go_quote.gif


Steve, have you seen Werner Herzog's Fitzcarraldo? You'd love it.
It's about a rubber speculator in the Amazon. Actually, he only wants to find the rubber to finance an opera house in the middle of oblivion. His dream is to get Caruso to sing there. He literally moves mountains to to accomplish his dream. Fitz, the speculator, is beyond obsessed. He hauls a giant Victrola around, with a single Caruso recording, and uses it to woo the natives and impress the colonialist. The film is an epic and beautifully shot. Check it out. Everyone who's a bit spastic about music should:

Fitzcarraldo (1982)



Hah, I loved that movie with crazy Klaus Kinski. Haven't seen it in 20 years. Must see again. Thanks, Sam.

Re: DemonicLemming, I fired off a response to his inanities early this morning then chose not to send it. Why bother. He's more invested in keeping the chip on his shoulder than getting to know who people really are and what drives them. I just find it ironic that he's the one obsessed with the price of gear and making judgments about high-end owners for it, and yet accuses them of being obsessed, when most I know personally aren't obsessed at all. We just get to talk about it here, and why not? It's a freaking audio forum! We get to be obsessed here and that's why we come: to talk about gear and gab with friends who like talking about gear. When we sign off, we hang out with our families, friends, neighbors, have jobs, have other interests, feed the cat, buy groceries, walk the dog, go to the gym, mow the lawn, and when we can, sit back and enjoy some music the best we can. I love my gear. It brings me the music I love. I worked hard for it, and I enjoy it. If I had to give it up, I would, but I'd miss it. That doesn't mean I like gear more than music. It does mean I've been both lucky and more than a little happy with what I have, and that's really a-okay with me.
 
Aug 10, 2008 at 12:57 AM Post #86 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Re: DemonicLemming, I fired off a response to his inanities early this morning then chose not to send it. Why bother. He's more invested in keeping the chip on his shoulder than getting to know who people really are and what drives them. I just find it ironic that he's the one obsessed with the price of gear and making judgments about high-end owners for it, and yet accuses them of being obsessed, when most I know personally aren't obsessed at all. We just get to talk about it here, and why not? It's a freaking audio forum! We get to be obsessed here and that's why we come: to talk about gear and gab with friends who like talking about gear. When we sign off, we hang out with our families, friends, neighbors, have jobs, have other interests, feed the cat, buy groceries, walk the dog, go to the gym, mow the lawn, and when we can, sit back and enjoy some music the best we can. I love my gear. It brings me the music I love. I worked hard for it, and I enjoy it. If I had to give it up, I would, but I'd miss it. That doesn't mean I like gear more than music. It does mean I've been both lucky and more than a little happy with what I have, and that's really a-okay with me.


Well put, Boomana!!
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Aug 10, 2008 at 12:57 AM Post #87 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Hah, I loved that movie with crazy Klaus Kinski. Haven't seen it in 20 years. Must see again. Thanks, Sam.

Re: DemonicLemming, I fired off a response to his inanities early this morning then chose not to send it. Why bother. He's more invested in keeping the chip on his shoulder than getting to know who people really are and what drives them. I just find it ironic that he's the one obsessed with the price of gear and making judgments about high-end owners for it, and yet accuses them of being obsessed, when most I know personally aren't obsessed at all. We just get to talk about it here, and why not? It's a freaking audio forum! We get to be obsessed here and that's why we come: to talk about gear and gab with friends who like talking about gear. When we sign off, we hang out with our families, friends, neighbors, have jobs, have other interests, feed the cat, buy groceries, walk the dog, go to the gym, mow the lawn, and when we can, sit back and enjoy some music the best we can. I love my gear. It brings me the music I love. I worked hard for it, and I enjoy it. If I had to give it up, I would, but I'd miss it. That doesn't mean I like gear more than music. It does mean I've been both lucky and more than a little happy with what I have, and that's really a-okay with me.



Why doesn't this forum have the Picard image when I need it...

I'm not "obsessed" with anything, nor do I have a chip on my shoulder about anything. I voiced my opinions based on my observations, and tommy had issues, evidently because my opinions didn't match his, and I wasn't going to bow and change mine because he told me to do so. I really don't give a damn how much anyone spends on audio gear - their money, not mine - but the whole idea that unless you spend lots of money on a hobby, you can't enjoy it as much as people who do spend lots of money on it is frankly bullsh*t.

The whole point of this thread was to determine whether audiophiles actually enjoy music, or if audio gear is just another outlet of expenditure for geeks. That was the entire point of my post - I feel that there are quite a few people who have gone so far into buying gear that they're not concerned about the music nearly as much as they are about buying their next piece of equipment, and not nearly as worried about actually listening to the music to enjoy it as they are using the music to find flaws in their current setup to justify purchasing more expensive equipment.

I guess the implied "this doesn't cover everyone with a bunch of gear" went unnoticed, so next time I'll make it blatantly obvious what groups I'm talking about. But I still hold with what I initially said - there are plenty of people on here who are here for the gear for the sake of buying something, rather than the gear for the sake of enjoying their music; and furthermore, that someone who only spends $30 on their setup - and is completely happy with it - doesn't enjoy music any less than someone who spends $300 or $3000 or $30,000 on their gear. And yes, I do think that some of the people who are here simply to buy gear wouldn't listen to music if they couldn't use their expensive setups to do it - for the very fact that they only listen to music to use their expensive gear. I'm sure that's going to offend and piss people off - it already has. I'm not going to change my opinions because of that, and if the elitists around here want to hate me for that, great, bully for them.

The thing that strikes me as hilarious, though, is that I get called out as self-congratulatory and arrogant by someone who comes out and says the amount someone spends declares how much they enjoy this hobby. If that's not mindless, blatant elitism, I don't know what is. "I spent more money on my gear so I like this better" is really just more bullsh*t when you get right down to it.
 
Aug 10, 2008 at 1:37 AM Post #88 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by DemonicLemming /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The thing that strikes me as hilarious, though, is that I get called out as self-congratulatory and arrogant by someone who comes out and says the amount someone spends declares how much they enjoy this hobby. If that's not mindless, blatant elitism, I don't know what is. "I spent more money on my gear so I like this better" is really just more bullsh*t when you get right down to it.


Yes, I know...most trolls find what they do to be amusing.

Let's try this one more time:

It seems apparent to me that it's not unreasonable to conclude, to the extent that folks have equal amounts of time and resources available, that the one who invests more (time and money) in gear and music APPARENTLY (with certain exceptions) enjoys it more. They are, after all, demonstrating by their actions that they are willing to commit more time and money to it.

That's all I was saying...but don't mind me, I'm just a mindless, blatant elitist.

Now go away, loud silly pointless troll....
 
Aug 10, 2008 at 2:10 AM Post #89 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by elrod-tom /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Yes, I know...most trolls find what they do to be amusing.

Let's try this one more time:

It seems apparent to me that it's not unreasonable to conclude, to the extent that folks have equal amounts of time and resources available, that the one who invests more (time and money) in gear and music APPARENTLY (with certain exceptions) enjoys it more. They are, after all, demonstrating by their actions that they are willing to commit more time and money to it.

That's all I was saying...but don't mind me, I'm just a mindless, blatant elitist.

Now go away, loud silly pointless troll....



I'm not a troll just because I don't conform my opinion to yours, bub.

Just because someone spends more money on a hobby doesn't mean they enjoy it more than someone who doesn't. I guess it just eludes you that people don't need to spend as much money as you do to enjoy the hobby the same amount you do. End of god damned story.

Have a nice day.
 
Aug 10, 2008 at 2:16 AM Post #90 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by DemonicLemming /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I'm not a troll just because I don't conform my opinion to yours, bub.


No...you're a troll because you entered this thread with a sneering attitude, looking for a fight.

Now go away, troll...
 

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