[BournePerfect]

   
Actually, any video has made a huge difference in the 3d soundstaging. It gives it more of a surround + better directional cues.

 
 
Yep. No other dac I've heard has even come close. At all. You'll literally hear things go past the back of your head and around to the other side at times-like some ridiculous type of crossfeed. And I can't stress the depth of it all enough-just with the HD800s lol. Speakers should be absurd with this setup...
 
-Daniel

 

[froger]

While Eximus DP-1 has a pretty unique and enjoyable 3-D soundstage, I wouldn't call it huge, at least on the HD800, compared to my AMR DP-777. The depth, width and the height of the soundstage and the image of the sound produced by the DP-777 is definitely better, not to mention the smoother and more analogue sound. However, you can't beat the unique presentation of "they are with you" kind of music by DP-1.

 

[azynneo]

You can't really widen the hd800 soundstage anymore than it already has on a proper setup.. anymore than what it already would be terrible. It works well with those that has clustered instruments i.e audezes.
 
Also, the AMR is 2,000$ more retail and you could find dp1s in the 2000 range.

 

[BournePerfect]

While Eximus DP-1 has a pretty unique and enjoyable 3-D soundstage, I wouldn't call it huge, at least on the HD800, compared to my AMR DP-777. The depth, width and the height of the soundstage and the image of the sound produced by the DP-777 is definitely better, not to mention the smoother and more analogue sound. However, you can't beat the unique presentation of "you are there" music by DP-1.

 
No-'they are here'.
 
I agree that the DP-1 soundstage isn't gigantic-but that isn't necessary with the HD800s. A coherent, 3D soundstage with excellent depth, width, and instrument separation are the keys to it's holographic imaging people refer to. The M7's soundstage was MUCH wider-but from a distance, and pretty flat. No comparison.
 
The Amr DP777 sounds like it could possibly be the logical step up-but if it can't beat the DP-1's up close, holographic presentation...then it's apples to oranges all over again. I'd be curious to hear it.
 
-Daniel

 

[froger]

You can't really widen the hd800 soundstage anymore than it already has on a proper setup.. anymore than what it already would be terrible. It works well with those that has clustered instruments i.e audezes.

Also, the AMR is 2,000$ more retail and you could find dp1s in the 2000 range.

I beg to differ that you can't widen HD800 anymore, anything more is terrible. The soundstage of HD800 can bring you close to speakers set-up, but still can't beat the soundstage of a good speaker set-up. With that in mind, you can imagine what a bigger soundstage will do even for HD800. There is nothing unnatural about a bigger soundstage, it just gives all instruments and voices the space they deserved. The end product is music with incredible layers where you can easily pinpoint where each instruments and voices come from. I feel that one of the reasons HD800 images so well is because of its soundstage, and using the same reason, you may understand why the imaging is a notch better, if you give HD800 a bigger soundstage than Eximus DP-1, which is a bit intimate sounding.
Yes, I agree that the price may make it an unfair comparison, so I was not recommending anything, just doing a comparison.

 

[azynneo]

I beg to differ that you can't widen HD800 anymore, anything more is terrible. The soundstage of HD800 can bring you close to speakers set-up, but still can't beat the soundstage of a good speaker set-up. With that in mind, you can imagine what a bigger soundstage will do even for HD800. There is nothing unnatural about a bigger soundstage, it just gives all instruments and voices the space they deserved. The end product is music with incredible layers where you can easily pinpoint where each instruments and voices come from. I feel that one of the reasons HD800 images so well is because of its soundstage, and using the same reason, you may understand why the imaging is a notch better, if you give HD800 a bigger soundstage than Eximus DP-1, which is a bit intimate sounding.
Yes, I agree that the price may make it an unfair comparison, so I was not recommending anything, just doing a comparison.

 
hmm.. I don't think hd800s come even close to a speaker setup. If anything, hifimans sound closer to speakers than the hd800s do. That's just my opinion though.
 
I've listened to the hd800 as my primary can for a bit more than 3 years and have done comparisons here and there with the best sources and amps I could find laying around.

 

[froger]

No-'they are here'.

I agree that the DP-1 soundstage isn't gigantic-but that isn't necessary with the HD800s. A coherent, 3D soundstage with excellent depth, width, and instrument separation are the keys to it's holographic imaging people refer to. The M7's soundstage was MUCH wider-but from a distance, and pretty flat. No comparison.

The Amr DP777 sounds like it could possibly be the logical step up-but if it can't beat the DP-1's up close, holographic presentation...then it's apples to oranges all over again. I'd be curious to hear it.

-Daniel

Thanks, edited it theoretically, it seems like HD800 doesn't need any booster in soundstage, but what I experienced is the DP-777 allows the HD800 to demonstrate what it is best in, or it could be the other way round. When I switched from DP-777 to Eximus DP-1, the sound feels cramped and I am longer able to pinpoint the exact locations of the instruments and voices. When earlier with DP-777, I felt like I was listening from speakers, it feel like I am back to headphones again. Of course, this is in comparison with DP-777. While Dp-1 excels in an immersing soundstage experience which I can imagine how good it will be with gaming and movies and together with music if you like that kind of presentation, one of DP-777's strengths lies in its big soundstage.

 

[azynneo]

Thanks, edited it

theoretically, it seems like HD800 doesn't need any booster in soundstage, but what I experienced is the DP-777 allows the HD800 to demonstrate what it is best in, or it could be the other way round. When I switched from DP-777 to Eximus DP-1, the sound feels cramped and I am longer able to pinpoint the exact locations of the instruments and voices. When earlier with DP-777, I felt like I was listening from speakers, it feel like I am back to headphones again. Of course, this is in comparison with DP-777. While Dp-1 excels in an immersing soundstage experience which I can imagine how good it will be with gaming and movies and together with music if you like that kind of presentation, one of DP-777's strengths lies in its big soundstage.

 
I shall put the DP-777 on my try list.
 
When I speak width, I'm not including layering, height and the imaging of the SS though imaging may sometimes go hand in hand with width as many people tend to sometimes use them interchangeably 

 

[froger]

hmm.. I don't think hd800s come even close to a speaker setup. If anything, hifimans sound closer to speakers than the hd800s do. That's just my opinion though.

I've listened to the hd800 as my primary can for a bit more than 3 years and have done comparisons here and there with the best sources and amps I could find laying around.

If you think that HD800 doesn't come close to speakers which definitely have bigger soundstage than HD800, why did you say that widening the soundstage of Hd800 will be terrible?

 

[azynneo]

If you think that HD800 doesn't come close to speakers which definitely have bigger soundstage than HD800, why did you say that widening the soundstage of Hd800 will be terrible?

 
I say these because they are headphones. It's a completely different experience from speakers. I've heard over-exaggerated hd800 soundstages on setups that had very large "width", and they were terrible. It must be my love with a warmer hd800 sound.
 
HD800 on 2nd part = HE-6 right?
 
The HE-6 IMHO has the impact, feel of the sub-bass excellent quality speakers provide. The HE-6 imho, has a better height in soundstage followed by much better imaging. They are planar magnetic headphones so instead of hearing the detail, it seems like I "feel" the detail which is what I feel on speakers.

 

[froger]

I say these because they are headphones. It's a completely different experience from speakers. I've heard over-exaggerated hd800 soundstages on setups that had very large "width", and they were terrible. It must be my love with a warmer hd800 sound.

I think I may know what you mean, is it a hollow sound that you may get when you play around with some digital soundstage softwares that gives you an artificial soundstage? I think width, depth and height must come hand in hand, otherwise, as you say, could be terrible and definitely unnatural for HD800.

 

[azynneo]

I think I may know what you mean, is it a hollow sound that you may get when you play around with some digital soundstage softwares that gives you an artificial soundstage? I think width, depth and height must come hand in hand, otherwise, as you say, could be terrible and definitely unnatural for HD800.

 
It's not those artificial crappy 7.1 logitech softwares lol. It's just when you're speaking about soundstage all I'm thinking about is "soundstage". When I hear over-exaggerated soundstage hd800s, everything else is gone but how simple it is to pick out the details but without the "fun" the hd800 can provide. All in all, I'm just saying that an HD800 with just an over-exaggerated soundstage as it's prima donna would be unfavorable for me.

 

[BournePerfect]

If my (albeit brief) time with the HD800/Auditor combo is any indicator-I do think some giant soundstages can prove problematic with the HD800s. The sound was MUCH too distant-like listening in an airplane hangar-not natural at all. It also had the effect of making certain frequencies just sound wrong imo-and I think it was directly related to soundstaging in this instance.
 
OTOH, the ZDSE had a monstrous 3D-like soundstage-but it sounded completely natural, and intimate despite it's size. So I think depending on one's gear (and preferences of course)-a system's soundstaging really comes down to preference. I prefer a bit of intimacy with the HD800, and I feel the DP-1 provides that, but also a big 'enough' soundstage, with excellent dimensions that provides coherency across the spectrum-something the HD800 lacks with most dacs/amps imo-and I've tried a number of them (that failed hard) in this regard with the Senn.
 
-Daniel

 

[azynneo]

  If my (albeit brief) time with the HD800/Auditor combo is any indicator-I do think some giant soundstages can prove problematic with the HD800s. The sound was MUCH too distant-like listening in an airplane hangar-not natural at all. It also had the effect of making certain frequencies just sound wrong imo-and I think it was directly related to soundstaging in this instance.
 
OTOH, the ZDSE had a monstrous 3D-like soundstage-but it sounded completely natural, and intimate despite it's size. So I think depending on one's gear (and preferences of course)-a system's soundstaging really comes down to preference. I prefer a bit of intimacy with the HD800, and I feel the DP-1 provides that, but also a big 'enough' soundstage, with excellent dimensions that provides coherency across the spectrum-something the HD800 lacks with most dacs/amps imo-and I've tried a number of them (that failed hard) in this regard with the Senn.
 
-Daniel

 
this is exactly what I was trying to get to lol despite my terrible wording.
 
Ah yes, forgot to ask. Daniel, hows the wa5le so far with your hd800s I would love some inputs vs your zdse

 

[BournePerfect]

Yeah-what you guys just described is basically what I experienced with the Auditor/HD800=to big, thin, unnatural, cold etc...
 
-Daniel