[Vangelis]

I missed Head Fest 07. I'll be there next year. I was wondering if anyone running around the show with their own cans heard or compared the HeadRoom Max Balanced Amp to the RSA Apache? The HeadRoom Max Balanced Amp is a cool grand more, ouch...

 

[granodemostasa]

I heard and compared both....but on vastly different sources, so there is nothing solid that I can really say about it. sorry.

on other issues:
1. the apache will have a high re-sale value because headroom is always updating modules and stuff.
2. from what I hear, the maxed out home is not that much different from the Max balanced, so why not go for that instead?
3. What's your source, and why did you rule out the GS-X?

 

[lextek]

Good question.

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by granodemostasa /img/forum/go_quote.gif 3. why did you rule out the GS-X?

not directed at me, but here are my reasons.

1. during my research of headamp products and the gs-x in particular, i kept on coming across the words dry, analytical, bright, cold, and neutral. some of those terms could be seen as positives, but generally it seems like they were being used in a slightly negative sense.

2. i read that new modules are coming out and did not want to purchase a soon to be old or obsolete model. plus if i ever decided to sell, the resale value would take an even bigger hit than the usual depreciation, being the older model.

3. i purchased the apache at the intro price, so i felt like i was getting more for my money than if i had gone with a gs-x and if i ever decide to sell the apache, the intro price will allow me to get back a better portion of what i put in.

4. i love the b-52 and hope that this sounds similar or gives me a similar listening experience (a wow!). i think all of rays products are top notch in terms of build quality. and customer service was another factor as well. things with justin can sometimes take a very long time. i get the impression that ray gets things done more quickly, whether it is building the amp or performing future potential repairs/modifications. another consideration, although less important, was just wanting to have an amp that was brand new on the market.

5. finally, the apache is a cooler looking amp.

 

[Nebby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif 5. the apache is a cooler looking amp.

AMEN!

 

[humanflyz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif not directed at me, but here are my reasons. 2. i read that new modules are coming out and did not want to purchase a soon to be old or obsolete model. plus if i ever decided to sell, the resale value would take an even bigger hit than the usual depreciation, being the older model.

You do know that the modules are user-replaceable right? The current GS-X modules are held in place by philips screws. Existing GS-X owners just have to buy the new modules from Justin and install them. I don't see where the drop in resell value would come in, unless you decide not to buy the new modules.

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by humanflyz /img/forum/go_quote.gif You do know that the modules are user-replaceable right? The current GS-X modules are held in place by philips screws. Existing GS-X owners just have to buy the new modules from Justin and install them. I don't see where the drop in resell value would come in, unless you decide not to buy the new modules.

didn't know that. the info on the new modules is vague/general. but if you have to buy them, then that still increases the total cost of the amp for those who buy now but will want the newer modules. so replaceable or not, it is still an additional cost.

 

[tbonner1]

I am looking for a balanced amp. The modular construction is very appealing from a repair and upgrade perspective.

 

[granodemostasa]

1: you guys realize that the headamp stuff is all class A, discrete with no feed back right?

2: the "dry" "analytical" stuff can be used to describe the Gilmore lite, but the GS-X is a pure joy to listen to.

3: how good an idea is it to make a decision based on the casing of the amplifier?

4: from what I hear, the modules (if they come out) will be cost upgrades, so I don't think the re-sale price would dramatically change.

 

[Akathriel]

Having never heard either amp heres my take on it:

Looking solely at construction I don't understand where your 3000 dollars is going for the Apache. I agree that it looks ****ing sick, but the bottom line is you're paying 3k for 2 HR-2s strapped together, and a nicer psu plus some nice additional features. I cant imagine paying 3k for an opamp design. I think thats crazy. That being said, perhaps the Apache does outperform the GS-X sonically, again I wouldn't know. But on paper, the GS-X seems like a better value to me.

 

[bhd812]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathriel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Having never heard either amp heres my take on it: Looking solely at construction I don't understand where your 3000 dollars is going for the Apache. I agree that it looks ****ing sick, but the bottom line is you're paying 3k for 2 HR-2s strapped together, and a nicer psu plus some nice additional features. I cant imagine paying 3k for an opamp design. I think thats crazy. That being said, perhaps the Apache does outperform the GS-X sonically, again I wouldn't know. But on paper, the GS-X seems like a better value to me.

If your going to look at it that way then it would be 2 hr-2's and 2 ca-2's which comes out to $3200-ish. your forgetting the beauty and (imo) major advantage over the others...its preamp. that's the one holding part the Apache has majorly different on the other amps mentioned, sure the other may have a pre but to someone who is serious with the speaker rig would always try out an RSA pre without question (headfier speaking).
the way you look at it this will also fit with the B52, what 2 raptors with a stealth? in your way of looking at it...

also between the others..

on the Headroom you have something very important the other do not..which is cross feed, and to a headfier that may be the deciding factor right there. also you have the option of a $500.00 dac and a $1200 volume pot if you would like.
the GSX is somewhat of a Gilmore design now (current modules) but hopefully soon Justin will release his very own and very first module using HIS sonic signature, a great idea for GSX owners but who knows what it will sound like? anyone hear Justin's sound before for long time? in other words the GSX now may be a future pot of gold or may not be favored with Justin's sound to it..not sure how safe you can call that. I owned the very first GSX and to me for the cost as is now was worth it for balanced headphone amps go, but not anywhere near what it should of been for a preamp.

either way will all three choices you have amazingly committed people that manufacture the best of the best in construction so with any of the three you'll never have to worry.

Apache: pre amp
max: crossfeed and dac as option
GSX: soon to be Justin sound in balanced

they all three fit nicely with there price point and they all have their own pros and cons over the others..its up to the person buying to listen and see what they like first.. and since you call opamps in the Apache does that mean you can opamp roll it? i never asked Ray before but that would be bad ass for Apache owners to alter the sound if they so want to..

IMO of what i heard from each as a headphone amp...
Wait to be honest for only headphone's you can get just as good if not on the same level of sonic quality without going balanced for an easy half the price if not more..
my B52 was bought for the pre amp to be balanced, as far as headphone amps concerned..i "could" live my life out with my HR-2/Raptor..
not sure if any of this makes sense

 

[morphsci]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif not directed at me, but here are my reasons. 1. during my research of headamp products and the gs-x in particular, i kept on coming across the words dry, analytical, bright, cold, and neutral. some of those terms could be seen as positives, but generally it seems like they were being used in a slightly negative sense.

I'm not sure where you got that impression from since there are not very many reviews (as opposed to meet impressions) out there. Anyway, from my admittedly short time with the amplifier, the only adjective I can somewhat agree with is neutral. I also suppose that if you had a dry, analytical, bright or cold source then the GS-X would sound that way

I cannot comment on how it compares to the Apache since I never heard one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathriel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Having never heard either amp heres my take on it: ...... But on paper, the GS-X seems like a better value to me.

In person I think it is a great value also.

 

[Nebby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhd812 /img/forum/go_quote.gif they all three fit nicely with there price point and they all have their own pros and cons over the others..its up to the person buying to listen and see what they like first.. and since you call opamps in the Apache does that mean you can opamp roll it? i never asked Ray before but that would be bad ass for Apache owners to alter the sound if they so want to..

All op-amps in the Apache are socketed, so you can roll op-amps if you so desire

I've already ordered my opa627's and ad797's

 

[Akathriel]

At risk of being flamed, I'll speak my mind hehe...

Quote:

If your going to look at it that way then it would be 2 hr-2's and 2 ca-2's which comes out to $3200-ish. your forgetting the beauty and (imo) major advantage over the others...its preamp. that's the one holding part the Apache has majorly different on the other amps mentioned, sure the other may have a pre but to someone who is serious with the speaker rig would always try out an RSA pre without question (headfier speaking). the way you look at it this will also fit with the B52, what 2 raptors with a stealth? in your way of looking at it...

That doesn't make any sense. Adding pre-amp outputs is not that big a deal. You're just adding a couple resistors to drive lower impedances, and a couple of plugs. Singlepower does this for 100 bucks. It comes standard on the Headamps. If you don't want to do them in parallel add a switch. Again no biggie. It sounds like Ray put a lot of time in effort in getting the pre amp outputs up to his high standards, but there's no extra amp in there, sorry.

And yes the B-52 is two raptors howd you guess

. I understand part of the reason Ray's prices are so high, and to some extent in this hobby you have to have higher prices to even garner serious interest. The other is time and craftsmanship he puts into his finished product, which is readily apparent is very impressive. But there isn't a lot of extra labor I can see put into the Apache. Its a true trickle down product. It's modules already existed in the HR-2 (which already has a huge markup itself) and the chassis was taken from the B-52. It cost less than 1500 in parts, I would guess (maybe less than 1000) and to me I just can't see where my money is going.


Again, I have no idea how the Apache sounds, and I'm willing to believe it sounds excellent reading around here. But knowing whats under the hood...it'd be hard for me to justify.

 

[Rise To The Top]

Arent both amps based off the same design? That said, they cant be that different, can they?