Hi Todd,
no offense meant anyway. I just wanted to mention it, 'cause used TD280s often go for more than they're really worth even over here - I guess, some people think that every Thorens model is automatically high-end or audiophile per se. Or maybe the model number makes 'em believe that 280 must be better than 146/147/160... Anyway, I can see your viewpoint, too - US$ 110 surely aren't extremely overpaid for a TD280II (or something else in that league) in good shape - compared to new turntables that's still a very good deal, no doubt.
Oh, and don't get me even started on the Thorens TD170/190/240. I guess you are aware of these being just Dual OEMs, made by Alfred Fehrenbacher over here? If not, the TD170-1 is a slightly modified CS435-1 - same goes for TD190-1/CS455-1 and TD240/CS455-1M. There's no Thorens version of the CS505-4, instead the TD295IV is based on the ProJect 1.2. Funny situation was that until recently a smart buyer could get one model higher from Dual for just the same price as one model lower from Thorens, e.g. the TD190-1 was as much as the CS455-1M... To amend that, distributor Sintron (who's also behind the new Thorens company, btw) has now also taken over the disribution of Dual and instantly bumped up the prices for the Dual models.
To be honest, there might be more "air" calculated into those new msrps though - in doubt, I'd grant that. Still, the new pricing scheme makes the recently introduced CS455-1M - basically a CS455-1 in a heavier, better looking plinth - less attractive by making it too expensive compared to the more old-fashioned and bland looking, but clearly better CS505-4. The latter could be considered as the last remaining real Dual, btw, and plays about on level, if not a tad better than a good old TD280II - especially in case of bookshelf placement, as the 505-4 is a suspended design...
As to the TD190 costing $ 550 in the US: That's certainly as ridiculous as the CS505-4 for ~ US$ 1000 from the American distributor, iirc. The situation over here isn't as bad despite the recent bumps: Especially HiFi Jäger still offers the 505-4 for moderate 350 Euro, and the CS455-1 Silver for 250 Euro isn't that bad either. (If you mind me mentioning a potential overseas competitor, let me know - I wouldn't think that's a problem for you, though, 'cause I don't think you'd offer the Duals and Thorenses for the inflated US prices, anyway...) Hmm, well, guess I got me started myself...
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
. I THINK it has an older Grado cart on it, I can't tell, but I'll most likely still use My Ortofon S OM10.
