Anyone listening to music at 120dB ?
Sep 15, 2014 at 6:13 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 12

Cryozeal

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I found in "Tips on how to choose a suitable amplifier for your beloved headphone" from FiiO website. They regard 120dB as "Excellence sound pressure," and provided power required for each headphone to achieve that sound pressure level.
 
Does anybody really listen to music at that level? As I remembered listening to music over 85dB at an extended period of time will cause hearing impairment.
Then what is the point of getting high output amp to power your headphones if we have to turn the volume down to save our ears?
 
Sep 15, 2014 at 6:30 PM Post #2 of 12
No, or at least I hope not. I'd have to guess what they mean is that they will drive "any" (portable) headphones with juice to spare. Some headphones, mostly the more expensive and higher Ohm rating will demand an amp to reveal all the qualities of those headphones, it's not really a question of volume...
 
Sep 15, 2014 at 6:43 PM Post #3 of 12
The 85 dB rule is for average (or RMS) volume. The peaks of the waveform will be higher than this. You want an amp that's capable of more volume that your regular listening volume so it can reproduce those peaks without clipping. Clipping causes the peaks to flatten, leading to distortion and a loss of dynamics.
 
120 dB is a bit much though. Music rarely has peaks more than 20 dB above the average, usually more like 10 dB or less. So generally you're looking to be able to drive your headphones to twice their normal volume, maybe a bit more to be safe. For most people, driving a headphone to 110 dB will be plenty, as it allows for loud volumes of 95-100 dB and no or minimal clipping. Any more and you can start encountering noise or channel balance issues from turning the volume pot down too low. If you can get away with less, your ears will thank you!
 
There's a couple different charts for volume vs. hearing damage. I prefer going by the NIOSH chart because it's stricter, and it scales with power (10 dB = 10x power, and 1/10 exposure by this chart). The brighter your headphones, the more conservative you should be.
  No, or at least I hope not. I'd have to guess what they mean is that they will drive "any" (portable) headphones with juice to spare. Some headphones, mostly the more expensive and higher Ohm rating will demand an amp to reveal all the qualities of those headphones, it's not really a question of volume...

It is precisely a question of volume, that's what an amp is designed to change 
smile.gif
 
 
Sep 15, 2014 at 11:42 PM Post #4 of 12
  The 85 dB rule is for average (or RMS) volume. The peaks of the waveform will be higher than this. You want an amp that's capable of more volume that your regular listening volume so it can reproduce those peaks without clipping. Clipping causes the peaks to flatten, leading to distortion and a loss of dynamics.
 
120 dB is a bit much though. Music rarely has peaks more than 20 dB above the average, usually more like 10 dB or less. So generally you're looking to be able to drive your headphones to twice their normal volume, maybe a bit more to be safe. For most people, driving a headphone to 110 dB will be plenty, as it allows for loud volumes of 95-100 dB and no or minimal clipping. Any more and you can start encountering noise or channel balance issues from turning the volume pot down too low. If you can get away with less, your ears will thank you!
 
There's a couple different charts for volume vs. hearing damage. I prefer going by the NIOSH chart because it's stricter, and it scales with power (10 dB = 10x power, and 1/10 exposure by this chart). The brighter your headphones, the more conservative you should be.
It is precisely a question of volume, that's what an amp is designed to change 
smile.gif
 

Thank you very much for detailed explanation. However, I'm confused a bit. You said you would want an amp that's capable of producing the peaks without clipping. But these peaks can go up to around 110 dB. Listening to music for several hours, although it's not RMS volume, we will experience many of these 100-110 dB peaks. Don't you think it's still dangerous for our ears?
 
Sep 16, 2014 at 2:50 PM Post #5 of 12
i don't know anything about the db values but i'm a long time high volume listener (10+ years, 5-6 hours at every day with in-ears). i want my sound system (various computer sound cards + fiio e11 currently) deliver the max amount i can tolerate. if my ears can tolerate that sound level, i don't see why it should damage my hearing ?
 
our ears exist for hearing, right ? when there is a problem comes out about our hearing, we always blame high volume listening. because it's the easy way. sorry i can't believe any of this. things just happen sometimes. if your hearing damaged from high volume then your ears was faulty, not the db levels. i have a problem with my eyes, why that happened because i "look" too much ? there is a lot of people with glasses, they "looked" more then me ? when i close the lights in my room it takes some time for my eyes to adopt the change. when you listen high music at high volume, it's normal that your ears will need some time to adopt. that doesn't mean it's harmful. i suggest don't think about this things too much. when the day comes we will die with our ears. our ears will gonna die with us. i'm not saying that it is completely harmless but everything we do causes some harm. there is no perfect way to avoid all of them. so you don't "have to" lower your volume. you just need to decide which way you want to go. do you want to die with perfect ears or you want to die along with your ears. i say listen to your music on whatever db you want. if something happens to your hearing i'm not responsible though. i'm not gonna pay your hospital charges. sorry for your ears and have a nice day.
 
a note about the amps, they not just make volume higher. they also delivers distortion free bass and treble signals. but of course not on every volume level. example: when i'm using only my sound card, say that i'm using on 100% volume. if the max bass level i can go is 60%, it can be 80% with an amp. so, without changing the volume level, we already experienced the power of an amp. of course amps can go to higher volume levels like 200% or 300% but highering the volume level is not the only advantage of them. maybe technically it is the same thing, i mean they are powering the signal in the end. but it could affect us differently, especially when bass frequencies considered as i explained above.
 
Sep 16, 2014 at 7:56 PM Post #6 of 12
Dude, you have to be kidding. Excessive volume will physically damage your ears. Just like shining a bright laser into your eyes will damage your vision.

For example, if you go to a loud concert you may be able to" tolerate" the volume. You might even adapt to it during the concert. Either way, your ears will be ringing the next day and that ringing is literally the sound of your damaged inner ear--you'll never hear those frequencies that are ringing as well as before ever again. The fact that our bodies can adapt to this only shows how flexible the human brain is. It does NOT mean that no d damage occured.
 
Sep 16, 2014 at 9:43 PM Post #7 of 12
if you go to a loud concert you may be able to" tolerate" the volume. You might even adapt to it during the concert. Either way, your ears will be ringing the next day and that ringing is literally the sound of your damaged inner ear

obviously my definition of "tolerance" is not same with yours. if your ear is ringing, if you tried to close your ears etc. these are the signs of you cannot tolerating the volume. if you continue like that you will only "bear" the high volume. that's different. i listen at high volume every day. i start by setting the volume 100% in windows first. after couple of seconds my ears adopt and then i can go up to 150-160% with the help of the media player. couple of seconds after, i want more and get more with the help of the amp. when i try to excess my tolerance limit, i feel discomfort and i fall back. that level i reached is my tolerance level and i don't need more, i don't like more and i can continue at this level for hours and hours. never feel any discomfort while listening or after. i have no idea about how much db's my tolerance level though. one of my loudest sound card is audigy 2 zs and i know it's on par with sandisk sansa series and their max level doesn't satisfies me which leads me to an amplifier. if this devices reaching 100 db's at maximum. then i think i'm listening usually at 110-120 db's.
 
Sep 17, 2014 at 12:07 AM Post #8 of 12
Tolerance to loud volume levels can be because of two things: your current ear health, meaning it's either very healthy so you don't feel any discomfort (yet), or you already have some hearing loss so you turn it up thinking that it's "tolerance" instead of "(over)compensation;" or your own mental limits (you're more used to it, which means you might actually have hearing loss also depending on how you got used to it). And in any of these cases actual physical tolerance of the ear drum to actual dB's isn't the real factor save for the very first example, but not for long if you listen to sustained 95dB+ levels for several hours.
 
As for 110dB dynamic peaks - just how many notes in all the songs in one's library have peaks like that, especially if you're listening to new, "loudness war" recordings?  The peaks that a system is capable of only affects its SQ, and as long as your average listening volume is 90dB and below and not sustained for several hours daily, there won't be any problem. 
 
Sep 17, 2014 at 8:53 AM Post #9 of 12
well i don't know i'm healthy or not, only thing i know i was the same when i was younger. so i don't think i lost something in the process. as for the peaks, i think i set the volume regarding to peaks because the loudest parts of my casual songs not causing any discomfort either. anyway, i need an amp to reach my tolerance level and i don't think it is harmful. not in a way that really matters at least. i can live without an amp actually. maxing my soundcard with the help of the volume enhancements i can still reach to a satisfying level but it always feels something missing without the amp. i need to reach my exact tolerance level for the full entertainment and for that amp is a must.
 
Sep 17, 2014 at 11:20 AM Post #10 of 12
Actually the amp isn't just for volume levels but for cleaner power. Many sources will struggle with a number of headphones - for example a 5mW at 32ohm integrated DAC and headphone driver chip will already distort powering a 300ohm headphone (even with a 97dB sensitivity), and much more so when it's driving say a lower impedance headphone whose impedance might stray far off the nominal rating on transient notes. 

Still, in my case I actually almost damaged my hearing precisely because of a better amp. Remember the problem with perception vs actual dBs? I was using distortion levels for the most part, and at point I acquired my Meier Cantate.2. My brother tapped me on the shoulder - I didn't hear him tapping on the window, ringing the bell, or coming into the room. He told me to set it down on the table, and it was only then I realized that my headphones were as loud as speakers at around 3ft away from my head. Imagine just how loud that really was. I used an SPL meter app to get a good sense of where on its volume knob (I only own one headphone - I can do enough meets over here to try others out anyway so no need to spend more) I would hit 95dB and never went past that. Well, except for really, really quiet recordings from the 1980s, like my (remastered) Queen CDs and Metallica's older CDs.
 
Sep 17, 2014 at 11:38 AM Post #11 of 12
well i don't know i'm healthy or not, only thing i know i was the same when i was younger. so i don't think i lost something in the process. as for the peaks, i think i set the volume regarding to peaks because the loudest parts of my casual songs not causing any discomfort either. anyway, i need an amp to reach my tolerance level and i don't think it is harmful. not in a way that really matters at least. i can live without an amp actually. maxing my soundcard with the help of the volume enhancements i can still reach to a satisfying level but it always feels something missing without the amp. i need to reach my exact tolerance level for the full entertainment and for that amp is a must.


You should get a free decibel meter app on your phone and measure how loud you actually listen. Nobody knows what volume levels you're talking about.
 

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