[3602]

[facebrick] And here we go again into the cable talk.
Anyway... We humans still have much to invent and perfect, then.

 

[project86]

My experience mirrors that of music_4321 and rroseperry - the problem starts at the top, where the cable is likely to come in contact with skin. It later creeps down to the farthest sections, which never touch skin. But maybe there is a transfer of oils/sweat from one section to another when I coil the cable and store it. 
 
Interestingly even the memory wire section, which has an extra layer of plastic covering, still turned green rather quickly. I suspect the clear plastic is not a true insulator. It would be interesting to slice open a well used black cable and see if the same thing applies.
 
For those who mentioned IC cables not having the same issue - unless you wear those around your ears I don't think it is a fair comparison. Plus even super cheap/ultra high gauge speaker cable has a much thicker "jacket" protecting it because it doesn't require portability. 

 

[High_Q]

^I thought oxidation was caused by oxygen or maybe water vapors in the air?  So humid atmosphere would speed up the oxidation process.  I would say substance that carry oxygen that can react with the copper.

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

^I thought oxidation was caused by oxygen or maybe water vapors in the air?  So humid atmosphere would speed up the oxidation process.  I would say substance that carry oxygen that can react with the copper.

Not any substance.  Water does because water is naturally polarized, that's why it works well. 

 

[High_Q]

NM.  I guess if the oxygen is polarized then, it would attract the copper +  more readily.  I think it's matter of which process speeds up the process, which I have stated above.

 

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

Let me better phrase that.  Not any substance that has oxygen will react as quickly as water (they could react, but it'd take much longer).  Water is special since it is naturally polarized.  Oxygen is an important factor, but there are other properties that make water the special substance to cause oxidation.  Also free flowing oxygen can do the same thing since it is just oxygen.  Some other gases like CO2 may not react, while CO may.

 

[wilzc]

Quote:

^I thought oxidation was caused by oxygen or maybe water vapors in the air?  So humid atmosphere would speed up the oxidation process.  I would say substance that carry oxygen that can react with the copper.

 
There are other things that can cause oxidation. Its a term to describe molecules that changed its state when loosing a few electron charges. Loosely put, any available surrounding, positively charged ion may be able to pull the electrons from the metal and cause oxidation.
 

 

[High_Q]

Ok.  With the copper.  Tell me what else is causing the oxidation.  What is the reaction in chemical terms?  So, you are stating that the resultant is not only copper oxide?
If not, what else is it?
 
Quote:

 
There are other things that can cause oxidation. Its a term to describe molecules that changed its state when loosing a few electron charges. Loosely put, any available surrounding, positively charged ion may be able to pull the electrons from the metal and cause oxidation.
 

 

 

[LizardKing1]

Quote:

Ok.  With the copper.  Tell me what else is causing the oxidation.  What is the reaction in chemical terms?  So, you are stating that the resultant is not only copper oxide?
If not, what else is it?
 
Quote:

There are other things that can cause oxidation. Its a term to describe molecules that changed its state when loosing a few electron charges. Loosely put, any available surrounding, positively charged ion may be able to pull the electrons from the metal and cause oxidation.
 

 
Dude relax, you're not the only Chemistry buff here ^^ He just meant that there are other things that can cause oxidation, no one is arguing that water is the big causer of oxidation in this case. By the way, I didn't understand how salt can help oxidation. I'm not doubting it does, I just don't understand how, since NaCl keeps its oxidation state constant (Na+, Cl-).
 
And I didn't say that this caused worse sound, I said it might. I don't want to start another cable argument, but we can all agree that there are some conductors better than others, right? A lot of people admit that copper purity, along with diameter, plays a big role in that. So, if you have a cable getting oxidized, you get more copper oxide, which doesn't conduct electrons. This means you have less pure (conductive) copper, so less copper purity, and a smaller diameter of the cable that is actually conducting electrons. Now, does that reflect itself on a worse sound? From what people have been saying here, no. But it might.

 

[rroseperry]

It looks as though what's forming on the cables is verdigris, what's formed is copper carbonate (most likely), copper chloride ,or copper sulfate. People use weak acetic acid to get this effect for metal work, and given that sweat and other skin oils run about 4 to 5.5, they're probably the main factor.

 

[High_Q]

That does make sense because on my cable, the green area is the strongest around where it touches my skin. And if the skin oil is ph'd around that level, it should be acidic.  That's the part I didn't get when I was wondering how the pigmint was the strongest around the piece that hooks to my ears.  Now it makes sense.  

 
Quote:

It looks as though what's forming on the cables is verdigris, what's formed is copper carbonate (most likely), copper chloride ,or copper sulfate. People use weak acetic acid to get this effect for metal work, and given that sweat and other skin oils run about 4 to 5.5, they're probably the main factor.

 

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

It looks as though what's forming on the cables is verdigris, what's formed is copper carbonate (most likely), copper chloride ,or copper sulfate. People use weak acetic acid to get this effect for metal work, and given that sweat and other skin oils run about 4 to 5.5, they're probably the main factor.

Oh wow, that was an interesting read, no doubt about it.  Not only does the copper need to react with water first to form the copper (II) oxide or carbon dioxide to form copper (II) carbonate, it then reacts with the acetic acid.  Then this forms.  After that it continues reacting with other substances.  This goes so much more into detail about what's happening.  Interesting nonetheless.  Thanks for the info.
 
Also, if no one read through the Wiki article, don't touch it (if you have a tear in the rubbery part of your cable or something).  It's hazardous.

 

[mrspeakers]

It is curious to me that it would be from skin oil.  From personal experience with the Shure's, as I noted, the plastic fell apart.  However, what was exposed was bright shiny copper, it did not have any green at all. Shure did indicate the plastic was reacting to skin acids defused in skin oil which caused it to become rigid then crack under stress.  In my case, I used the cable for a while even though the housing split, and the copper never turned green, so while my skin could react with the plastic it did not with the copper (makes me not want to nibble my wife's ear any more... Blech).
 
Anyhow, my chemistry fails me here, but a few points:
 
1) I do have trouble believe skin oil could propagate through an entire 1m+ cable all the way from the ears, or that sufficient oil could transfer from the ear area, and further that if it did the process would be very slow, non-uniform, and in addition to starting by the ears, would also likely move up from the plug where they get handled the most...  
 
2) Is it possible that the clear housing is somehow more gas or moisture permeable than colored housings, or is this just nothing more than dye added to create the color?  
 
3) Is it possible that the extremely thin sheath for IEMs to keep weight and bulk down is the culprit, allowing gas and moisture to penetrate the housing?
 
4  It really would be interesting to find out if those having these troubles are in a humid climates.
 
Chemists in the house?
 
 
 

 

[3602]

Some say that the copper is reacting to the insulator material since this happens in some really cheap speaker wires.

 

[3602]

Also, I am GLaD to announce that this is not limited to IEM cables.

An IC cable.