[kuma]

I'm just curious what's their prefrence on thier cans would be.

 

[pbirkett]

Well, I dont own Linn or Naim, but from what I can gather, Linn is contrary to popular belief, not really all that much like Naim. I know someone who has a Linn Classik, and he said its very refined and realistic sounding, so its very much a hifi product.

OTOH, Naim values its upfront presentation and strong, on the ball timing and bass over ultimate fidelity, so its more of a fun music maker.

Now I am a firm believer in systems that make music rather than sound realistic (thats a distant second priority for me), and although I cant afford a Naim, I think my Rotel/Cambridge/Mission combo sounds extremely musical for its price. Lots of punchy bass, good timing, it boogies very well indeed, much, much better than many more expensive hifi's i've heard.

I've got Beyer 931's (very hifi) and Beyer 770's (very musical). No prizes to guess which I prefer.

I would think a Naimee would prefer something like the 770's or Grado's.

 

[kuma]

Quote:

Originally posted by pbirkett Well, I dont own Linn or Naim, but from what I can gather, Linn is contrary to popular belief, not really all that much like Naim. I know someone who has a Linn Classik, and he said its very refined and realistic sounding, so its very much a hifi product. OTOH, Naim values its upfront presentation and strong, on the ball timing and bass over ultimate fidelity, so its more of a fun music maker.

Yeah. Linn and Naim sort of do it differently. But, those two still stand out from the majority of hi-fi out there. Linn, unarguably subtler than Naim, they are still *flat-earthy* to me.

The reason why I am curious is that some can't stand headphone listening because it does less spatial thing. So, if she/he values soundstaging which is one of the holy grail of hi-end audio believed by many, I see why they would have trouble listening to it.

From what I have seen here, I see the same trend. Soundstaging vs. carrying a tune.

NOw, traditionally, Linnies and Naimies value pace and timing over those stage quatliy in music reproduction. I thought more flatearthers might be into 'fone listening and curious what would be their fone of choice.

[/B][/QUOTE] Quote:

Now I am a firm believer in systems that make music rather than sound realistic (thats a distant second priority for me), and although I cant afford a Naim, I think my Rotel/Cambridge/Mission combo sounds extremely musical for its price. Lots of punchy bass, good timing, it boogies very well indeed, much, much better than many more expensive hifi's i've heard.

Not quite sure what you mean by *realistic* but for me *beleivable* is better word for it. The system/gear that times better have better chance doing it for me.
And I agree so many expensive kits can't boogie. Great 3D stuff but many failed to convince.

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I've got Beyer 931's (very hifi) and Beyer 770's (very musical). No prizes to guess which I prefer.

Haven't heard the Beyers except at the local Virgin.

Interesting you mention Grado because my guess would be 'em as well.

 

[zimmer]

I own some Naim stuff but would hardly qualify as a "true believer". My association started when a friend in Chicago got a LP-12/Rega RB300, Naim Nait 2 integrated and Proac Super Tablette speakers in the late 80s. It sounded better than anything I had heard before but in retropect it was probably just the first system I ever heard that was properly setup in a very good room for audio. The Naim dealership in Chicago was a first-rate organization which also led to my decision to purchase. The US importer adds a hefty chunk to the price though. But with the exception of Sony ES, I cannot think of a company in the US that will stand behind their digital product for 5 years.
I agree, you'd think that the "Flat-earth" view might be more accepting of the headphone experience but I don't think this is the case. Go to the Naim forum and I think you will find a lack of headphone interest. Sure, Naim makes the Headline (another excuse to buy another external power supply!) but it doesn't seem to get much interest. The level of headphone knowledge/experience there is primative - recommendations for basic Creek/Rega headphone amps just doesn't match the cash outlays that some of these people have put in the rest of their systems. As for headphone recommendations I have no idea what the prefered dynamic phone might be. Quad speaker lovers, a speaker that Naimites have a long association with, might be drawn to Stax but probably with a solid state energizer vs a tube model!

 

[Mat Bon 0013]

I do not use any Headphones with my NAIM rig. However I do have Ety's 4S and DT880 on the way, there is no provision for headphones via NAIM amps unless you use one of their own (HEADLINE) which works together with a power supply. I have heard these with some Senn's of earlier vintage a few years ago and IMO sounds quite mediocre.

 

[kuma]

Quote:

I agree, you'd think that the "Flat-earth" view might be more accepting of the headphone experience but I don't think this is the case. Go to the Naim forum and I think you will find a lack of headphone interest. Sure, Naim makes the Headline (another excuse to buy another external power supply!) but it doesn't seem to get much interest. The level of headphone knowledge/experience there is primative - recommendations for basic Creek/Rega headphone amps just doesn't match the cash outlays that some of these people have put in the rest of their systems.[/B]

This is interesting! I like what Naim gear does but I never bought into their 'system approach'. They are sort of cultish. Since they are one of the few who makes headphone amp, I thought, maybe more Naimies are into it.

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As for headphone recommendations I have no idea what the prefered dynamic phone might be. Quad speaker lovers, a speaker that Naimites have a long association with, might be drawn to Stax but probably with a solid state energizer vs a tube model!

Another surprise. Quad and Naim? Fast speakers make sense for 'em but, they can't go loud.

AKG might go well with 'em, too.

 

[kuma]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mat Bon 0013 I do not use any Headphones with my NAIM rig. However I do have Ety's 4S and DT880 on the way, there is no provision for headphones via NAIM amps unless you use one of their own (HEADLINE) which works together with a power supply. I have heard these with some Senn's of earlier vintage a few years ago and IMO sounds quite mediocre.

Another poster mentioned Beyer phones. I am curious how they are compared to Grado RS-1. If you are planning to use DT880 with your kit, let me know how it goes.

 

[Mat Bon 0013]

For Headphone listening I do not use NAIM amps, sorry! I'll leave the Flat Earthing as that.
I'll be using META42's for headphones.

 

[kuma]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mat Bon 0013 For Headphone listening I do not use NAIM amps, sorry! I'll leave the Flat Earthing as that. I'll be using META42's for headphones.

Would you say, Meta and Naim amp sound similar?

 

[Mat Bon 0013]

I would imagine the META would give the NAIM Headline a run for its money IMO. I auditioned the META using my then source Meridian 206B using HD600's was very much impressed!
The Headline's audition was a few years ago and wouldn't be fair to comment now against the META.

 

[Ross]

I have a full Naim system - CDS2/XPS/52/Supercap/250/NAT01/PST/Prefix/Hicap/Headline/Hicap with a Linn LP12 and Spendor speakers - and I can tell you that it is unusual for Naim owners to have headphones, or if they do, they buy one pair without thinking too much about them and rarely use them. I am one of the few exceptions to this in the Naim/flat earth world, because I spend a lot of time listening to headphones: I own Senn 580s, 600s, Beyer 770s, 880s, 990s, Grado SR80s, 225s and 325s, and have owned CD3000s, Beyer 931s and A-T W2002s. However, which do I prefer? I wish I knew.

Incidentally, the Headline is an excellent amp (when used with a Hicap) which is comparable to or better than any of the other amps I've heard and own, unless you prefer the slow, bloated, cuddly sound of tubes (in which case you wouldn't be listening to a Naim system anyway). Note that a new version of the Headline has just been released which is said to be even better than the previous version, and which is capable of driving a bigger range of headphones.

Ross

 

[kuma]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ross I have a full Naim system - CDS2/XPS/52/Supercap/250/NAT01/PST/Prefix/Hicap/Headline/Hicap with a Linn LP12 and Spendor speakers - and I can tell you that it is unusual for Naim owners to have headphones, or if they do, they buy one pair without thinking too much about them and rarely use them. I am one of the few exceptions to this in the Naim/flat earth world, because I spend a lot of time listening to headphones: I own Senn 580s, 600s, Beyer 770s, 880s, 990s, Grado SR80s, 225s and 325s, and have owned CD3000s, Beyer 931s and A-T W2002s. However, which do I prefer? I wish I knew.

Naimie's in the house!

Curious to hear your impression on Grado/Naim vs. Beyer/Naim combo.

BTW, I love your cd player.

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unless you prefer the slow, bloated, cuddly sound of tubes (in which case you wouldn't be listening to a Naim system anyway).

Recently, I had an opportunity to listen to CDX2/NAC552/NAP500 driving,Wilson ( ya, I know, a strange combo ) and you know what? they sounded very similar to what I use at home which includes single-ended triode amplifers. Naim front end products which I have heard it with my amps are few that won't spoil pace'n'bass.

And yes. I HATE slow, bloated, cuddly sound of tubes.

 

[Ross]

Quote:

Curious to hear your impression on Grado/Naim vs. Beyer/Naim combo.

I haven't tried my Grados in the Headline, because it is the older version which does not like low impedance headphones. Although some people use the older Headline and Grados with success, I have also heard of one or two cases of people damaging the amp with Grados, so I'm not prepared to take the rislk. I will, however, do so when I get the new Headline, which is designed for low as well as higher impedance phones.

Of course, I have compared the Grados and Beyers with the other amps and am familiar with their differences. In some ways the Grados are very similar to the Naim philosophy - fast, rythmic, a little "in your face", tight bass and compellingly musical. However, this can be too much of a good thing, and I find the Beyers better on balance, because of their more neutral presentation, deeper (though somewhat bloated) bass and more natural presentation. Most of the time I listen to the Beyers or Senns, but there are some occasions when only the Grados will do!

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BTW, I love your cd player.

So do I. I used to have a Meridian 508.24 and the Naim player is so much better in every area it just made the Meridian sound broken. I'd love to hear the CDS3, but for the moment I'm very happy with the CDS2.

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they sounded very similar to what I use at home which includes single-ended triode amplifers.

That doesn't entirely surprise me. I owned some Audio Note 300B triode amps for a while and although ultimately I didn't like them and sold them, they were surprisingly fast and dynamic for low powered tube amps. Unfortunately, most tube amps don't have these qualities. I can understand why many people like tubes, but it's not for everyone.

Ross

 

[kuma]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ross In some ways the Grados are very similar to the Naim philosophy - fast, rythmic, a little "in your face", tight bass and compellingly musical. However, this can be too much of a good thing, and I find the Beyers better on balance, because of their more neutral presentation, deeper (though somewhat bloated) bass and more natural presentation. Most of the time I listen to the Beyers or Senns, but there are some occasions when only the Grados will do!

I haven't tried RS1 with Naim amp, but, I did try 'em with Exposure which is another tune-carrying amplifier who has similar traits as Naim. It was interesting to note that whole disposition didn't differ much from PP tube amps I was running at that time. At any rate, it gave me a hint of what Grado/Naim can sound together.

I see what you mean by Grado + Naim might be too much. Grado, interestingly enough, reminds me a lot of ATC speakers which I also adore but, can get out of hand.

Beyer interests me. Altho, bloomy bass you've mentioned, might be troublesome with the kind of music I listen to.

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Unfortunately, most tube amps don't have these qualities. I can understand why many people like tubes, but it's not for everyone.

They sure don't. And I was surprised at finding myself ditching high-powered Krell monoblocks for them to *gain* better dynamics and speed. I am sure you haven't seen too many techno/dance listeners owning SET amps. Solid state amps such as NAP500 delivered them but they are too darn costly not to mention its bulk.

 

[pbirkett]

Quote:

Originally posted by kuma Beyer interests me. Altho, bloomy bass you've mentioned, might be troublesome with the kind of music I listen to.

From my sig below, you can see I have DT770s. Believe it or not, I dont find the bass bloated at all, and I listen to a lot of trance music. The bass is very hard hitting and very present, but I wouldnt say it was that slow - certainly when listening to Prodigy on them last night, the bass always stops and starts when it should. Perhaps using an underpowered amp would cause this "lack of control" in the lower registers. I also own the 931 which has genuinely fast bass, the fastest bass I've heard from any headphone, although it comes across too lean for me, and doesnt have the drive and slam of the 770. I've also had Grado's, which did have good bass, but I would say not as good as the 770, but they did have a much more upfront presentation.

I'd probably go for the Grado's for rock music, but the Beyers for pop and electronica.