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Originally Posted by eyeresist
I think that although there is a very active, vocal group of fans that sees itself as the centre of the scene, the silent majority of anime watchers don't read much manga, or play import games, or care about which seiyuu is in which show. Some of these viewers might have some idea of what 'moe' means, but it would still be jarring, because it's not a common loan-word like sayonara, sushi or tofu.
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I dunno how active those people are, I only visit american blogs only so often, usually when some new show comes out and I feel like seeing the gut reaction of the local enthusiasts. Arent all otakus supposed to be quite and reserved introverts anyway?
In all seriousness, most serious anime watchers I know (myself included) are not that vocal about any anime to the outsiders period ,knowing full well how they would hardly understand us and we have no desire to convert them to one of us. If this is about promoting the show among those who actually care about anime, then the show deserves it more so than any recent production; all these moe elements they throw out in the show may not fit your bill, but to say the show lacked quality in objective sense is highly disagreeable.
My take on the business aspect of it is, if you dont know what moe is by now, then no way in hell you would be considered the primary target for this particular type of show, nor should you expect otherwise. To be fair, IIRC the RC1 dvd probably came out way after all the buzz, so they could have had looked into other marketting possibilities. Still, doesnt change the large picture of haruhi being a-boy-oriented material IMO; I see no sound reason why the distributors would bother to please the uncertain potential mass at the expense of satisfaction of guaranteed near-compulsive buyers. Those casual anime watchers... Do they really buy anime dvds? Maybe. Hell, if I were ever in the market for the RC1 DVDs and they neutered "moe" with "sexy", I would be quite upset to say the least. (Then again, you could turn the argument on its head by saying that the majority of serious watchers are unlikely to bother with dubs... Cant argue with that
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Haruhi anime really outdid itself beating the expectations by far, which in itself is a very praiseworthy and remarkable feat. But it would be foolish to assume it somehow became an instant household name for the outsiders to this hobby as well. I just dont think anime (especially of such genre) is that mainstream other than being a prime target for nerd of japanophile bashing in a form of culturephobia; you just got to be a weirdo to like anime in the US unless its Naruto or Bleach you are talking (sorry if I forgot to mention [insert your favorite shounen or action series])
(nothing against you, just the sad state of affairs around here) Part of the blame goes to the tendency of people around here being so unhealthily insecure about their masculinity, but thats another issue altogether. Not like otakus are role models or in Japan either, but at least the fandom is more proportionally represented internally.
Again, I am not saying they should make a liberal use of loan-words out of the blue with no particular reason, though I dont see anything that sinister in doing so either. "Moe" in that specific context you are reffering to had a clear purpose that I elaborated earlier. Lets say you have a sitcom that likes to poke fun at nerds. One of them nerds say something like "wow, thats so l337!", and you proceed to translate that to "wow, thats so masterful"... How would that work? Might as well take that scene out entirely, serves no purpose other than puzzling the viewers with a seemingly pointless conversation. If you think there is a term that could capture Haruhi's otakuness in that scene better than "moe", please let me know; "sexy" is apparetly not.
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Originally Posted by eyeresist
The problem is, if translators start refusing to translate words on the basis that "the fans will know what it means", they're in real danger of closing off anime to the non-otakus in the West, which in the long run is bad news for everyone.
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I think it was more of a deliberate (and righteously so) decision rather than an incompetence or laziness. The simple fact is, you just cant keep everyone happy no matter what you do. Many shows end up being either too washed out to resemble anything authentic, other shows are two cryptic to be likeable and approachable to the general public, though yet others sometimes achieve some reasonable balance for a happy medium. Between the first two, I would most definitely favor the latter, for I value my personal viewing pleasure way more than recognition from the random indifferent mass with the high likelihood of a poorly executed material getting undue respect and attention from those who dont care to learn more about the original (case in point : Fate/Stay Night).
If anything, the first thing that should be brought up in that light would be the director's decision to mix up the episode order on the basis that "if haruhi directed it, she would have done so", which is extremely newcomer-unfriendly strategy that probably turned off a lot of people. Do I have any qualms with it? None whatsoever! I guess I am a type of a person that would rather keep sushis what they are than turning them all into California rolls so that they would sell. Nothing against California rolls, though I would be happy as long as they "keep it real", regardless of joe shmo's take on sushi. Sushis are never gonna replace bread & butter and why should they ever? If they are so heavily altered to be markettable you can no longer call them original sushis can you?
I like haruhi the way it is now, and I dont need/want it to be watered down just because someone who wouldnt have cared much for the show anyway (not you personally, just a generic reference) may feel marginally more comfortable seeing familiar words. How is getting to know more terminology a bad thing? I could easily spend hours and hours being totally absorbed reading random stuff on wikipedia one after another, and it never offends me to know that I wasnt aware of a word or two. It is this group of iniquisitive minds which are relatively free from the gridlock of cultural/intellectual arrogance that anime has any potential for growth to begin with, I believe. I never knew what sennheiser or 6cg7 was when I did not have as much interest in audio. Not that I am complaining that I had to pick up some new words, big deal. Life is a learning experience, even when it comes to enjoying oneself.
Seriously, if you thought that "moe" thing was that bad, try some Pani Poni Dash; I doubt there is one person that knows all the overwhelmingly random references they made in that anime... Yet this doesnt stop the show from being enjoyable and highly regarded. Different type of shows go for different audiences, and Haruhi is no Doraemon or Sazaesan no matter how you slice it; why would it have to be? The show isnt even aired at the prime time!
Nothing personal, just an opinion
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To a large degree, the success of particular anime titles in Japan and America is very relative. In some cases hit titles in Japan also become highly successful in America. But there are also many examples of anime that were not big hits in Japan which have become very successful in America, and vice versa. Typically anime titles targeted at mainstream pre-adolescent and teen viewers have a universal appeal. Anime designed for Japanese children often doesn't go over as well in America. And anime intended for the niche hardcore fan market may have very different support in Japan and America.
Shows like Dragonball, Bleach, Yu Yu Hakusho, Rurouni Kenshin, Naruto, and Inuyasha are designed to appeal to mainstream pre-teen and teenage Japanese viewers. These shows feature big, diverse casts, long, slowly developing stories, and archetypal themes that stress teamwork, morality, honor, and loyalty. Because these programs are easily accessible and entertaining, and aren't overtly childish, they tend to become popular among both mainstream Japanese viewers and American anime fans. However, ironically Japan's hardcore fan community often dismisses these shows as too mainstream. These types of shows are very popular among Japanese viewers because they're mainstream entertainment rather than niche market shows broadcast at odd hours for obsessive fanatic viewers. These shows are often massively popular among American fans because of their accessibility and broad appeal. Few people argue that Dragonball Z is an exceptional literary or cinematic masterpiece, but it is massively popular worldwide.
The exception to the rule are mainstream Japanese family and children's shows. Programs like Sazae-san, Chibi Maruko-chan, Crayon Shin-chan, Anpanman, Doraemon, and Detective Conan are among the most successful of all anime; however these shows aren't very popular among hardcore Japanese otaku, again because they're too mainstream, and not popular with American viewers because they're thought of as too childish. Anime series like Pocket Monster and Yu-Gi-Oh are good examples of the market for Japanese children's anime. Pokemon is so popular and successful in Japan that it's become a genuine part of Japanese culture. Both Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh are still popular enough in America to be highly profitable, even though they have minimal support in the hardcore fan community. Its mainstream viewers and consumers in both Japan and America that support these shows. Only two examples from this genre, Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh, have reached breakthrough success in America, but there are many such titles that are tremendously successful in Japan.
Mainstream anime are always more popular and successful than shows targeted at niche markets because of the size of their audiences. While most mainstream anime is highly successful in Japan, it's typically mostly mainstream shonen anime that reaches massive popularity in America. Successful Japanese shoujo and children's anime often isn't highly successful in America. The averages for anime targeted at hardcore fans aren't quite as easily distinguishable. As a general average, Japan's otaku community gravitates toward cheerful, romantic, lighthearted, and attractive anime while America's otaku community has a taste for darker, more intellectual, and more action oriented anime. A few good examples are the fact that American fan favorite titles like Ninja Scroll, Trigun, Battle Angel, Akira, Vampire Hunter D, and Hellsing seem to be more widely popular in America than in Japan. Cute and romantic comedies and dramas like To Heart, Air, Da Capo, Rozen Maiden, and Aria are typically fan favorites in Japan's hardcore fan community, but these types of shows rarely become big hits in America.
Massively successful mainstream hits in Japan usually have a good chance of being imported to America for a number of reasons. Shows that are tremendously popular in Japan are usually popular because they're appealing and accessible, so American licensors are eager to import these shows in hope that they'll find a similar audience and popularity in America. Japanese licensors may be also eager to export these tentpole franchises in order to gain an international foothold. The success of smaller market, hardcore fan oriented shows usually depends on the show and the market. Popular fan oriented titles in Japan don't necessarily become hits in America. Likewise there are anime titles like Outlaw Star, Big O, Cowboy Bebop, FLCL, Gantz, and Berserk that are arguably more successful and popular in America than they are in Japan. |
