Any anime series that you've been enjoying?
Sep 17, 2007 at 4:13 AM Post #1,546 of 6,444

devwild

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Mar 28, 2004
Posts
1,444
Likes
44
Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeresist /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - After all the hype I've finally seen it. I wasn't overwhelmed by it, but then, it does have one of the most mediocre dubs I've heard in a while (admittedly I haven't heard any dubs in a while, as I avoid them like the plague).


Funny, Haruhi is one of the few series I've watched subbed in recent history (I think most recent dubs are quite reasonable, and are simply easier for me to watch), mainly out of curiosity generated by the hype. I think I've mentioned before here I liked the series, but recently I saw a short clip of the dub and was not impressed by it - not because of the choices compared to the Japanese voice acting, but because in my mind I already had American voices and personality quirks tied to the characters which were a far cry from the end result.

Blasted imagination always ruins everything.
wink.gif


Quote:

Mushi-shi - Haven't heard of this one before. A real nice surprise - slow, gentle, atmospheric, well-crafted. About a "mushi master" who wanders old Japan dealing with hauntings by "mushi", strange shapeshifting ghost-like lifeforms. Maybe a sort-of supernatural Kino's Journey? I'll definitely be looking for more of this.


I've been following this as well (R1 release/dub), it really is quite good. While there is certainly some similarity to Kino, I've been thinking of it more like a series of short Miyazaki-esque stories (but leaning on the adult side). The series does a great job of capturing that sort of charm, emotion, and mystique in a 20-25 minute episode. Ep2 was particularly masterful in this regard.

The opening theme gets grating quick though.
rolleyes.gif
 
Sep 17, 2007 at 5:24 AM Post #1,547 of 6,444

eyeresist

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Posts
652
Likes
21
Quote:

Originally Posted by devwild /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Haruhi is one of the few series I've watched subbed in recent history (I think most recent dubs are quite reasonable, and are simply easier for me to watch), mainly out of curiosity generated by the hype. I think I've mentioned before here I liked the series, but recently I saw a short clip of the dub and was not impressed by it - not because of the choices compared to the Japanese voice acting, but because in my mind I already had American voices and personality quirks tied to the characters which were a far cry from the end result. Blasted imagination always ruins everything.
wink.gif



I admit that watching with subs can be hard work sometimes, and can distract from important visuals or action. So I sometimes go to the dark side and try the dub, but pretty soon I go "Aaaargh!" and have to switch back.

I'm not one who says dubs are always bad - some of the later Miyazaki films have had great dubs, and the Cowboy Bebop and Chobits dubs are in some respects better than the originals. Other US-dubbed shows occasionally have good performances that are unfortunately surrounded by no-talent dross.

I wish the US redubbing industry was a bit more like the Japanese system, where there's more emphasis on dramatic quality and less emphasis on exact lip-syncing. Also, the Japanese care enough to voice-cast for age - I get annoyed when an elderly person and a kid are voiced by people who are obviously around the same age (20s to early 30s). I could go on, but I get the feeling this is an old argument that some people have heard too many times already...

Quote:

Originally Posted by devwild /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I've been following this as well (R1 release/dub), it really is quite good. While there is certainly some similarity to Kino, I've been thinking of it more like a series of short Miyazaki-esque stories (but leaning on the adult side). The series does a great job of capturing that sort of charm, emotion, and mystique in a 20-25 minute episode. Ep2 was particularly masterful in this regard. The opening theme gets grating quick though.
rolleyes.gif



(Re Mushi-shi) You're right about the Miyazaki thing - I've only seen first episode, but the strong feeling of nature and its spirits was very like Mononoke (I haven't seen Totoro). The pacing was also very Ghibli-esque. I also loved the way it was like a little film that could stand by itself.
I don't remember the OP very well - I think I tried to block it out
wink.gif
 
Sep 17, 2007 at 12:57 PM Post #1,548 of 6,444

devwild

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Mar 28, 2004
Posts
1,444
Likes
44
Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeresist /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I could go on, but I get the feeling this is an old argument that some people have heard too many times already...


Trust me, I wasn't arguing the point, just stating my condition. I know better
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Sep 17, 2007 at 3:59 PM Post #1,549 of 6,444

dhwilkin

Headphone audiophiles are practically the stuff of legend.
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Posts
4,426
Likes
11
Quote:

Originally Posted by enjoiflobees /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Gurren Lagann is the best anime of all time so far. I've seen alot of shows. but gurren lagann takes the cake. well nodame cantabile isnt that far behind. it's very very close.
"who the ****ing do you think I am."



Yeah, regardless of how it finishes, its definitely earned a spot in my top 5 series of all time. But how it finishes, and how much rewatchability it has (given that a decent amount of its excitement comes from the surprise of topping itself every episode), will determine where in my top 5 it finishes. Some series end up being more rewatchable than others for me, and I'm bad at predicting which ones will and won't be, so I hope I'm just as thrilled when the series is over and I go back and rewatch it.

Other current shows brief thoughts:
- Higurashi Kai: Continues to impress, Keiichi especially. Along w/ the first season, this is another of my top 5 shows.
- Lucky Star: Certainly got funnier after some rather dismal opening episodes, though I don't think its as consistently hilarious as many people do.
- Nanoha StrikerS: As a huge Nanoha fan, I hate to say this third season has been disappointing. Uneven pacing, plot development, and character focus (usually strengths of the series) really hurt. Still, it's not bad per se (how could it be, it's Nanoha), it just hasn't lived up to my high expectations that came from the first two seasons. Here's hoping they saved all the awesome for the last few episodes.
- Hayate no Gotoku: This show has gotten better and better, IMO, since they started emphasizing the humor from character relationships more and random references and parodies a little less. Lots of great characters, highly recommended.
- Nagasarate Airantou: Though this seems to not be that popular, I'm still very much enjoying it. Again, it helps that I like the characters.
- Zero no Tsukaima 2: Wow. I liked the first season, even though it wasn't a masterpiece or anything like that. This season, though, just keeps getting worse and worse (and not in the so-bad-it's-good way, either), IMO.
- Claymore: Very good show. I haven't read the manga, so no comment about people saying how much the last episodes have begun to stray from the manga and how much better they supposedly could be. I'll enjoy the rest of the season, then go back and see if/how much the manga version would've been better.
 
Sep 17, 2007 at 4:22 PM Post #1,550 of 6,444

saint.panda

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Posts
4,317
Likes
37
Location
Berlin
Seirei no Moributo is my favourite show of the season. Gurren Lagann is too over the top for me, but it has a few great moments.

Darker than Black turned out to be better than I thought with the second part of the season being more interesting.

I'm also following Shoot, a very old anime about soccer, which is just something I like. Feels nostalgic.
 
Sep 17, 2007 at 9:47 PM Post #1,551 of 6,444

MikoLayer

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Posts
1,279
Likes
12
Quote:

Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - After all the hype I've finally seen it. I wasn't overwhelmed by it, but then, it does have one of the most mediocre dubs I've heard in a while (admittedly I haven't heard any dubs in a while, as I avoid them like the plague). And if they're going to the trouble of translating it, why keep the Japanese word "moe" when, in this context, "sexy" would be a good-enough translation? I'll have to wait till I get access to a sub version to assess this show.


As the intended audience for the original light novel and accordingly the anime tends to be a certain group of demographic (wink wink), moe is very firmly established and accepted term (IMO), if not overused. The original and the anime being not-SO-mainstream, you should have known what you were in it for, I would attest. For moe != sexy, I think it is very reasonable to use the term as is, especially when it was specifically used in the context to highlight suzumiya's character in the original content (Kyon's reaction "huh?" was apparantly not because she called it sexy, rather due to her choice of words) Say, imagine you were to translate an american comedy with one person being shocked by the other person's usage of "lol" in verbal communication. Should you pick a word that simply means very funny or hillarious, all the witiness of humor would be null and void.

Personally, I really loved the anime, coming from reading the novel first. For one, I think it serves as a good milestone to anime conversion, which more often than not results in a ditch. Without knowing the material full well, I guess the series could be perceived less appealing. (That, of course, goes on top of our inherent differences in tastes and whatnot)

Then again, you said you watched it dubbed... My experience with dubs in any language is just a different series altogether for good or bad. Audio/voice is a very significant part of what makes up the show, and the role it plays in building the overall atmosphere.. I might as well say we could be looking at two different shows
tongue.gif


Quote:

Hayate no Gotoku: This show has gotten better and better, IMO, since they started emphasizing the humor from character relationships more and random references and parodies a little less. Lots of great characters, highly recommended.


No offense to the fans of Seto no Hanayome, but I think Hayate utterly destroys it in every department. After the first episodes, I wasnt particularly partial to the either show, then they quickly diverged in opposite extremes...
Hayate no Gotoku is a pure win in my book. Now, only if I could digest all the parodies they throw out there (not as bad as z2bow, but still)

Quote:

Zero no Tsukaima 2: Wow. I liked the first season, even though it wasn't a masterpiece or anything like that. This season, though, just keeps getting worse and worse (and not in the so-bad-it's-good way, either), IMO.


Agreed and agreed about both the prequel and the sequel
frown.gif
Other than the loli tsundere powered by Kugimiya Rie, dont see much of anything positive there...
 
Sep 17, 2007 at 10:30 PM Post #1,552 of 6,444

MikoLayer

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Posts
1,279
Likes
12
Admittedely, lucky star isnt always a constant lolfest akin to gyagu manga biyori or something along that line. What I like about the show is some witty observations in everyday life that you cant help agreeing with dished out a good dose of otaku references. An otherwise well paced quality show sugar coated with excessive moe, whats there to not like?
smily_headphones1.gif
I dont find Shiraishi THAT funny, though lucky channel really gets quite amusing at times. I think it is a very enjoyable viewing experience overall.
 
Sep 18, 2007 at 2:21 AM Post #1,553 of 6,444

eyeresist

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Posts
652
Likes
21
Quote:

Originally Posted by devwild /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Trust me, I wasn't arguing the point, just stating my condition. I know better
smily_headphones1.gif



I hear ya. I wasn't accusing you in any way, just talking to myself, because this is the kind of issue I love going on about
biggrin.gif


Quote:

Originally Posted by MikoLayer /img/forum/go_quote.gif
As the intended audience for the original light novel and accordingly the anime tends to be a certain group of demographic (wink wink), moe is very firmly established and accepted term (IMO), if not overused. The original and the anime being not-SO-mainstream, you should have known what you were in it for, I would attest. For moe != sexy, I think it is very reasonable to use the term as is, especially when it was specifically used in the context to highlight suzumiya's character in the original content (Kyon's reaction "huh?" was apparantly not because she called it sexy, rather due to her choice of words)
...
Then again, you said you watched it dubbed... My experience with dubs in any language is just a different series altogether for good or bad. Audio/voice is a very significant part of what makes up the show, and the role it plays in building the overall atmosphere.. I might as well say we could be looking at two different shows
tongue.gif



I'm kinda out of the loop, but I assume by "a certain demographic" you're referring to hardcore anime fans in the US? Considering the hype this show has received, I don't think you can say it's okay to pitch at a hardcore minority, when it's obviously going to have a much bigger audience than that. As for not translating "moe", the inevitable problem is - why translate at all? Why not have American actors saying "baka" and "itadakimasu", and differentiating between "arigato" and "domo"?

But as I said above, I didn't watch the dub out of choice. I generally prefer watching the sub and filling in the details with my (admittedly limited) Japanese.
 
Sep 18, 2007 at 2:40 AM Post #1,554 of 6,444

will75

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Posts
1,343
Likes
11
What's a good series to start with for someone not yet into anime?

As a kid, I loved Voltron (I know it's not the same thing as what everyone here is discussing).....would like to find a series to give a shot.
 
Sep 18, 2007 at 5:15 AM Post #1,555 of 6,444

MikoLayer

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Posts
1,279
Likes
12
My impression of the Suzumiya series light novel Tanigawa Nagaru (up to wherever managed to read), was by all means aimed at the so called a-boy types first and foremost. Maybe not allllll that deep, but you get my point; what does it have to offer, for instance, to mecha fans? The novel (and accordingly the anime series) makes ample and blatant attempts to appeal to the bishoujo anime fans IMO, and does it well - an undeniable part of the reason for its success. The reasonable guess for the tremendous success of hare hare yukai on the Oricon charts was solely due to aggressive fan campaign. The point here being, people that would go ga-ga over this type of anime are what we would typically label "(bishoujo) otakus".

Correct me if I am wrong but... seeing how the vast majority of US anime viewers are obssesed about gung-ho shounen action genre and nothing else, I would think it be even tougher for them to penetrate the US market compartively speaking. Hype is definitely there, but at its core the fanbase is still those who would be watching these type of shows, play gyaruges, read light novels and whatnot. That establishes the appropriateness of using the term "moe" in my view; moe is a newly coined term that has seen more than abundant use with no direct equivalent even in the native tongue. Should we necessarily call tofus "bean curds" only?

Besides, it is all about the context the word in question was used (and thus my example of using "lol" in real life). As for your rebuttal, yes I would much rather be not afraid to use the word "baka" if it has a special contextual meaning and plays a specific role in the given situation. On the contrary, overly strict adherence to bland, banal nuance-butchering diction is something I would rather not see in an entertainment-oriented material.

For someone like me who had liked the novel and the studio well before the anime aired, it didnt really matter whether the series caught public attention or not. To my knowledge though, it was only after Haruhi that Hiarano Aya really took off (now shes everywhere, kinda bothers me on certain unfit roles); I am willing to bet no one really anticipated the level of success the show is enjoying now.

My japanese is quite limited as well, we are on the same boat as far as that goes
smily_headphones1.gif


Quote:

I'm kinda out of the loop, but I assume by "a certain demographic" you're referring to hardcore anime fans in the US? Considering the hype this show has received, I don't think you can say it's okay to pitch at a hardcore minority, when it's obviously going to have a much bigger audience than that. As for not translating "moe", the inevitable problem is - why translate at all? Why not have American actors saying "baka" and "itadakimasu", and differentiating between "arigato" and "domo"?

But as I said above, I didn't watch the dub out of choice. I generally prefer watching the sub and filling in the details with my (admittedly limited) Japanese.


 
Sep 20, 2007 at 7:06 AM Post #1,556 of 6,444

eyeresist

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Posts
652
Likes
21
Will75 - recommending one start-up show is tough. Since you mention Voltron, maybe a mecha show would be the way to go? I don't know a lot about the genre, but I though Gundam Seed was a great, emotional epic-type show. You should watch the original series of (Super Dimension Fortress) Macross. The visuals look dated (1970s) but it's a classic. If you don't want subtitles, you could watch the first season of Robotech, which was Macross dubbed and slightly re-engineered for the US - this version still has a lot of fans.


Quote:

Originally Posted by MikoLayer /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The point here being, people that would go ga-ga over this type of anime are what we would typically label "(bishoujo) otakus".
... seeing how the vast majority of US anime viewers are obssesed about gung-ho shounen action genre and nothing else, I would think it be even tougher for them to penetrate the US market compartively speaking. Hype is definitely there, but at its core the fanbase is still those who would be watching these type of shows, play gyaruges, read light novels and whatnot. That establishes the appropriateness of using the term "moe" in my view; moe is a newly coined term that has seen more than abundant use with no direct equivalent even in the native tongue. Should we necessarily call tofus "bean curds" only?



I think that although there is a very active, vocal group of fans that sees itself as the centre of the scene, the silent majority of anime watchers don't read much manga, or play import games, or care about which seiyuu is in which show. Some of these viewers might have some idea of what 'moe' means, but it would still be jarring, because it's not a common loan-word like sayonara, sushi or tofu.

The problem is, if translators start refusing to translate words on the basis that "the fans will know what it means", they're in real danger of closing off anime to the non-otakus in the West, which in the long run is bad news for everyone.
 
Sep 20, 2007 at 7:33 AM Post #1,557 of 6,444

marvin

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Posts
2,580
Likes
17
Quote:

Originally Posted by will75
What's a good series to start with for someone not yet into anime?

As a kid, I loved Voltron (I know it's not the same thing as what everyone here is discussing).....would like to find a series to give a shot.



I generally recommend Full Metal Panic. 24 episodes, $60 for the boxed DVD set, well animated, and a nice blend of action and comedy. Oh yeah, and giant mecha. Can't forget that. The English dubbing is also one of the best performances I've heard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeresist /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The problem is, if translators start refusing to translate words on the basis that "the fans will know what it means", they're in real danger of closing off anime to the non-otakus in the West, which in the long run is bad news for everyone.


That's why translation notes were invented.
biggrin.gif
 
Sep 20, 2007 at 12:07 PM Post #1,558 of 6,444

MikoLayer

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Posts
1,279
Likes
12
Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeresist
I think that although there is a very active, vocal group of fans that sees itself as the centre of the scene, the silent majority of anime watchers don't read much manga, or play import games, or care about which seiyuu is in which show. Some of these viewers might have some idea of what 'moe' means, but it would still be jarring, because it's not a common loan-word like sayonara, sushi or tofu.


I dunno how active those people are, I only visit american blogs only so often, usually when some new show comes out and I feel like seeing the gut reaction of the local enthusiasts. Arent all otakus supposed to be quite and reserved introverts anyway?
tongue.gif
In all seriousness, most serious anime watchers I know (myself included) are not that vocal about any anime to the outsiders period ,knowing full well how they would hardly understand us and we have no desire to convert them to one of us. If this is about promoting the show among those who actually care about anime, then the show deserves it more so than any recent production; all these moe elements they throw out in the show may not fit your bill, but to say the show lacked quality in objective sense is highly disagreeable.

My take on the business aspect of it is, if you dont know what moe is by now, then no way in hell you would be considered the primary target for this particular type of show, nor should you expect otherwise. To be fair, IIRC the RC1 dvd probably came out way after all the buzz, so they could have had looked into other marketting possibilities. Still, doesnt change the large picture of haruhi being a-boy-oriented material IMO; I see no sound reason why the distributors would bother to please the uncertain potential mass at the expense of satisfaction of guaranteed near-compulsive buyers. Those casual anime watchers... Do they really buy anime dvds? Maybe. Hell, if I were ever in the market for the RC1 DVDs and they neutered "moe" with "sexy", I would be quite upset to say the least. (Then again, you could turn the argument on its head by saying that the majority of serious watchers are unlikely to bother with dubs... Cant argue with that
smily_headphones1.gif
)

Haruhi anime really outdid itself beating the expectations by far, which in itself is a very praiseworthy and remarkable feat. But it would be foolish to assume it somehow became an instant household name for the outsiders to this hobby as well. I just dont think anime (especially of such genre) is that mainstream other than being a prime target for nerd of japanophile bashing in a form of culturephobia; you just got to be a weirdo to like anime in the US unless its Naruto or Bleach you are talking (sorry if I forgot to mention [insert your favorite shounen or action series])
rolleyes.gif
(nothing against you, just the sad state of affairs around here) Part of the blame goes to the tendency of people around here being so unhealthily insecure about their masculinity, but thats another issue altogether. Not like otakus are role models or in Japan either, but at least the fandom is more proportionally represented internally.

Again, I am not saying they should make a liberal use of loan-words out of the blue with no particular reason, though I dont see anything that sinister in doing so either. "Moe" in that specific context you are reffering to had a clear purpose that I elaborated earlier. Lets say you have a sitcom that likes to poke fun at nerds. One of them nerds say something like "wow, thats so l337!", and you proceed to translate that to "wow, thats so masterful"... How would that work? Might as well take that scene out entirely, serves no purpose other than puzzling the viewers with a seemingly pointless conversation. If you think there is a term that could capture Haruhi's otakuness in that scene better than "moe", please let me know; "sexy" is apparetly not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeresist
The problem is, if translators start refusing to translate words on the basis that "the fans will know what it means", they're in real danger of closing off anime to the non-otakus in the West, which in the long run is bad news for everyone.


I think it was more of a deliberate (and righteously so) decision rather than an incompetence or laziness. The simple fact is, you just cant keep everyone happy no matter what you do. Many shows end up being either too washed out to resemble anything authentic, other shows are two cryptic to be likeable and approachable to the general public, though yet others sometimes achieve some reasonable balance for a happy medium. Between the first two, I would most definitely favor the latter, for I value my personal viewing pleasure way more than recognition from the random indifferent mass with the high likelihood of a poorly executed material getting undue respect and attention from those who dont care to learn more about the original (case in point : Fate/Stay Night).

If anything, the first thing that should be brought up in that light would be the director's decision to mix up the episode order on the basis that "if haruhi directed it, she would have done so", which is extremely newcomer-unfriendly strategy that probably turned off a lot of people. Do I have any qualms with it? None whatsoever! I guess I am a type of a person that would rather keep sushis what they are than turning them all into California rolls so that they would sell. Nothing against California rolls, though I would be happy as long as they "keep it real", regardless of joe shmo's take on sushi. Sushis are never gonna replace bread & butter and why should they ever? If they are so heavily altered to be markettable you can no longer call them original sushis can you?

I like haruhi the way it is now, and I dont need/want it to be watered down just because someone who wouldnt have cared much for the show anyway (not you personally, just a generic reference) may feel marginally more comfortable seeing familiar words. How is getting to know more terminology a bad thing? I could easily spend hours and hours being totally absorbed reading random stuff on wikipedia one after another, and it never offends me to know that I wasnt aware of a word or two. It is this group of iniquisitive minds which are relatively free from the gridlock of cultural/intellectual arrogance that anime has any potential for growth to begin with, I believe. I never knew what sennheiser or 6cg7 was when I did not have as much interest in audio. Not that I am complaining that I had to pick up some new words, big deal. Life is a learning experience, even when it comes to enjoying oneself.

Seriously, if you thought that "moe" thing was that bad, try some Pani Poni Dash; I doubt there is one person that knows all the overwhelmingly random references they made in that anime... Yet this doesnt stop the show from being enjoyable and highly regarded. Different type of shows go for different audiences, and Haruhi is no Doraemon or Sazaesan no matter how you slice it; why would it have to be? The show isnt even aired at the prime time!

Nothing personal, just an opinion
smily_headphones1.gif


Quote:

To a large degree, the success of particular anime titles in Japan and America is very relative. In some cases hit titles in Japan also become highly successful in America. But there are also many examples of anime that were not big hits in Japan which have become very successful in America, and vice versa. Typically anime titles targeted at mainstream pre-adolescent and teen viewers have a universal appeal. Anime designed for Japanese children often doesn't go over as well in America. And anime intended for the niche hardcore fan market may have very different support in Japan and America.

Shows like Dragonball, Bleach, Yu Yu Hakusho, Rurouni Kenshin, Naruto, and Inuyasha are designed to appeal to mainstream pre-teen and teenage Japanese viewers. These shows feature big, diverse casts, long, slowly developing stories, and archetypal themes that stress teamwork, morality, honor, and loyalty. Because these programs are easily accessible and entertaining, and aren't overtly childish, they tend to become popular among both mainstream Japanese viewers and American anime fans. However, ironically Japan's hardcore fan community often dismisses these shows as too mainstream. These types of shows are very popular among Japanese viewers because they're mainstream entertainment rather than niche market shows broadcast at odd hours for obsessive fanatic viewers. These shows are often massively popular among American fans because of their accessibility and broad appeal. Few people argue that Dragonball Z is an exceptional literary or cinematic masterpiece, but it is massively popular worldwide.

The exception to the rule are mainstream Japanese family and children's shows. Programs like Sazae-san, Chibi Maruko-chan, Crayon Shin-chan, Anpanman, Doraemon, and Detective Conan are among the most successful of all anime; however these shows aren't very popular among hardcore Japanese otaku, again because they're too mainstream, and not popular with American viewers because they're thought of as too childish. Anime series like Pocket Monster and Yu-Gi-Oh are good examples of the market for Japanese children's anime. Pokemon is so popular and successful in Japan that it's become a genuine part of Japanese culture. Both Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh are still popular enough in America to be highly profitable, even though they have minimal support in the hardcore fan community. Its mainstream viewers and consumers in both Japan and America that support these shows. Only two examples from this genre, Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh, have reached breakthrough success in America, but there are many such titles that are tremendously successful in Japan.

Mainstream anime are always more popular and successful than shows targeted at niche markets because of the size of their audiences. While most mainstream anime is highly successful in Japan, it's typically mostly mainstream shonen anime that reaches massive popularity in America. Successful Japanese shoujo and children's anime often isn't highly successful in America. The averages for anime targeted at hardcore fans aren't quite as easily distinguishable. As a general average, Japan's otaku community gravitates toward cheerful, romantic, lighthearted, and attractive anime while America's otaku community has a taste for darker, more intellectual, and more action oriented anime. A few good examples are the fact that American fan favorite titles like Ninja Scroll, Trigun, Battle Angel, Akira, Vampire Hunter D, and Hellsing seem to be more widely popular in America than in Japan. Cute and romantic comedies and dramas like To Heart, Air, Da Capo, Rozen Maiden, and Aria are typically fan favorites in Japan's hardcore fan community, but these types of shows rarely become big hits in America.

Massively successful mainstream hits in Japan usually have a good chance of being imported to America for a number of reasons. Shows that are tremendously popular in Japan are usually popular because they're appealing and accessible, so American licensors are eager to import these shows in hope that they'll find a similar audience and popularity in America. Japanese licensors may be also eager to export these tentpole franchises in order to gain an international foothold. The success of smaller market, hardcore fan oriented shows usually depends on the show and the market. Popular fan oriented titles in Japan don't necessarily become hits in America. Likewise there are anime titles like Outlaw Star, Big O, Cowboy Bebop, FLCL, Gantz, and Berserk that are arguably more successful and popular in America than they are in Japan.


 
Sep 20, 2007 at 1:17 PM Post #1,559 of 6,444

MikoLayer

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Posts
1,279
Likes
12
Quote:

Originally Posted by will75 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
What's a good series to start with for someone not yet into anime?

As a kid, I loved Voltron (I know it's not the same thing as what everyone here is discussing).....would like to find a series to give a shot.



Guren Ragan?
Action packed, extraordinarily high quality visuals, dont need to know any of parodies to follow, has an ever-evolving scale that escalates beyond bounds limits... Seems to have a bit of everything for everyone. One of very few mecha shows that I actually enjoyed.

Utawarerumono for similar reasons except the visuals are mixed bag of thoughts. Great series nonetheless, non-anime friends seemed to like the clips of it. I finished the game and liked both versions. The show reminded me a lot of Scrapped Princess, which is another show that I would highly recommend. Both had comparable background and development of story, great music, likeable and diversified characters, tearjerker moments, ho-hum humor and arguably rushed endings.

Onegai Series - A light-hearted love comedy that doesnt rely much on cultural/linguistic humor. Short and lively, my roomate was pleasantly surprised with it. You dont have to watch the prequel to enjoy the sequel and vice versa. I liked the sequel a lot more but to each his own.

Hanbun no Tsuki ga Noboru Sora - Again, you never know what you might like. What you have here is a short, fast-paced and emotional series that does a decent job of giving you the idea of what the novel is about.

NHK ni Yokoso - Excellent series all in all, just watch it
tongue.gif


and maybe sola.

Last but not least... the obligatory Haruhi plug just because I am a fanboy
tongue.gif
I would suggest watching the eps1 at the end though.
 
Sep 21, 2007 at 12:55 AM Post #1,560 of 6,444

eyeresist

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Posts
652
Likes
21
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikoLayer /img/forum/go_quote.gif
all these moe elements they throw out in the show may not fit your bill, but to say the show lacked quality in objective sense is highly disagreeable.


I never said that!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikoLayer /img/forum/go_quote.gif
My take on the business aspect of it is, if you dont know what moe is by now, then no way in hell you would be considered the primary target for this particular type of show, nor should you expect otherwise.


Elitism FTL?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikoLayer /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Those casual anime watchers... Do they really buy anime dvds?


I actually still consider myself non-hardcore, despite having watched >100 anime in the last year or two and strongly preferring the sub. (But this may just be willful perversity; like Groucho said, "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.")

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikoLayer /img/forum/go_quote.gif
(Then again, you could turn the argument on its head by saying that the majority of serious watchers are unlikely to bother with dubs... Can't argue with that
smily_headphones1.gif
)



Nope!
smily_headphones1.gif
(but with emphasis on "serious")

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikoLayer /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Let's say you have a sitcom that likes to poke fun at nerds. One of them nerds say something like "wow, thats so l337!", and you proceed to translate that to "wow, thats so masterful"... How would that work? Might as well take that scene out entirely, serves no purpose other than puzzling the viewers with a seemingly pointless conversation.


I wonder how you could translate "1337" into Japanese?
I think we've probably done this argument to death by now, so I'll just reiterate my opinion that the translator's job is to translate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikoLayer /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Nothing personal, just an opinion
smily_headphones1.gif



That's fine, no hard feelings I hope
cool.gif




Quote:

Originally Posted by MikoLayer /img/forum/go_quote.gif
you just got to be a weirdo to like anime in the US unless its Naruto or Bleach you are talking (sorry if I forgot to mention [insert your favorite shounen or action series])
rolleyes.gif
(nothing against you, just the sad state of affairs around here). Part of the blame goes to the tendency of people around here being so unhealthily insecure about their masculinity, but that's another issue altogether.



Heh, my knowledge of Naruto & Bleach is fairly minimal (I just haven't got around to them yet), and no one ever accused me of being concerned about my masculinity! The whole shonen anime thing is kinda funny - if you're debating anime on the interweb, exactly how butch could you be anyway?!
biggrin.gif


Quote:

Originally Posted by MikoLayer /img/forum/go_quote.gif
If anything, the first thing that should be brought up in that light would be the director's decision to mix up the episode order on the basis that "if Haruhi directed it, she would have done so", which is extremely newcomer-unfriendly strategy that probably turned off a lot of people.


Are you serious? Did they do that? Wow!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikoLayer /img/forum/go_quote.gif
...for I value my personal viewing pleasure way more than recognition from the random indifferent mass with the high likelihood of a poorly executed material getting undue respect and attention from those who dont care to learn more about the original (case in point: Fate/Stay Night).


This reminds me - being in Australia I wouldn't know, but extras material on DVDs from ADV etc seems to be promoting the idea of a hardcore US fanbase that is dub-only. To which I respond: wha-?
Being a hardcore fan of dubs seems to me a serious indication of lack of taste. I can understand having nostalgic affection for early shows that were only available in dub when originally viewed. Heck, I was very impressed to find out that the guy who voiced Rick Hunter directed the dub for Planetes - but it was still a typically badly-acted dub.
(I believe the Japanese watch most foreign material dubbed, but on the other hand, they have a much more developed voice-acting industry than the West.)
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top