[lamaslamas]

Hi Headfi,
long time lurker, first post here to ask for your help

budget around ~500€, even a bit more if it's worth, preferably on amazon (europe)

No gaming, just music.

Genres: classic and modern alternative and Psychedelic rock, IDM, Jazz, Classical, not really a basshead, but I enjoy warm and punch-ish bass without giving up to britghness

I have no amp atm, but I would consider buying one, although I would use the headphones mostly with my phone/pc

"Sidegrade" to my German Maestro GMP 8.35d closed back

Struggled between planar or dynamic,

So far I came across these:

Hifiman he560

Hifiman sundara

Monoprice Monolith m1060

Ella blue

Senn HD650/660s

beyer dt1990

AKG K712

I heard great and terrible things about hifiman and Monoprice, so I'm a bit scared of pulling the trigger on those, but I'm really curious to try them. Unfortunately there are no resellers around here, that's why I would prefer to get them from Amazon.

Today I found some deals for used HE560 from USA at ~220$, and I'm really tempted to pull the trigger

Which one would you suggest? Any other alternative in that price range?

Thanks in advance

 

[audiofil]

Hi,
Welcome to head-fi!
I would look at Massdrop and a combo actually - Sennheiser HD6xx or 58x plus a Hifiman HE4xx.
The price for both is very reasonable (around 300 euro more or less, depending which Senn you'd pick), but you'd have 2 very competent headphones with 2 very distinct sound presentations.
I'd redirect the rest of the budget in a good dac/amp, preferably used (lots of good deals in the classified section here).

 

[lamaslamas]

Hi,
Welcome to head-fi!
I would look at a Massdrop and a combo actually - Sennheiser HD6xx or 58x plus a Hifiman HE4xx.
The price for both is very reasonable (around 300 euro more or less, depending which Senn you'd pick), but you'd have 2 very competent headphones with 2 very distinct sound presentations.
I'd redirect the rest of the budget in a good dac/amp, preferably used (lots of good deals in the classified section here).

Thanks! It sounds brilliant, but with custom fees and taxes for european shipping I would end up paying much more I guess.

 

[audiofil]

Sure, customs would add up to the cost a bit, but that may depend on luck a bit as well. The customs fees I've paid so far on my Massdrop orders have been quite varied (from full VAT and a small customs fee down to a few euros).
But even if paid in full, HD58x + 4xx would set you back less than 350 euro, which is still a great deal. After all 350 euro is more or less what you'd pay for a HD650 alone in Europe.

 

[lamaslamas]

I must say it is a tempting deal, but considering I already have my gmp, I'm afraid two others pair of headphones would be overkill, and I would end up using just a pair. Furthermore, it would be annoying to return them in case for whatever reason I will not like them, eventually paying double customs.

But thanks for your suggestion anyway!

Sure, customs would add up to the cost a bit, but that may depend on luck a bit as well. The customs fees I've paid so far on my Massdrop orders have been quite varied (from full VAT and a small customs fee down to a few euros).
But even if paid in full, HD58x + 4xx would set you back less than 350 euro, which is still a great deal. After all 350 euro more or less what you'd pay for a HD650 alone in Europe.

 

[megabigeye]

Hi there,
You and I have similar music tastes! I'm with you about HiFiMan and MonoPrice-- just too many stories about things going wrong. Personally I'd strike those off the list, but that's just me.

I have the HD 650 and DT 1990 and love them both, but they're pretty different headphones. The Sennheiser is pretty warm, with more mid-bass than sub-bass, somewhat forward mids, and a kind of musical, slightly soft treble. They are pretty detailed, but in a subtle way.
I wouldn't call the DT 1990 warm, even though it has more sub-bass than the HD 650, the mids are very slightly recessed (but really only in comparison to the HD 650; it's very subtle), and treble is very bright and detailed. I'd describe these as being aggressively detailed. Soundstage is about the same size on both, which is cozy, but I think imaging is better on the Beyer.
With the exception of the soundstage, the Beyer is better than the Senn at pretty much everything it does... Unless you don't like a lot of treble or just want a warmer, more laid back sounding headphone. The DT 1990 is very exciting, the HD 650 is more relaxing.
Both headphones are really good at all the genres you listed, but the bass and treble make the DT 1990 better for IDM/electronic and maybe for classical as well. The HD 650 might be better for jazz if it's poorly recorded; the DT 1990 can be pretty unforgiving, though it's not usually a problem for me.
The HD 650 should do fine without an amp, but obviously will do better with one. The DT 1990 is a little less sensitive so needs a little more power than the HD 650 despite having a lower impedance, and it likes to be played loud. You might be able to get by without an amp, but you'll probably want one eventually. (FYI, I just decided to test the DT 1990 directly out of my MacBook Air and it sounds surprisingly good. An amp is definitely not a must for me-- you might have different luck with your PC.)

I have no experience with the K712, but there was recently a discussion in the DT 1990 thread about which is better. I think all but one person agreed that the DT 1990 is better, and it turned out that the person favoring the K712 was under-driving the Beyers (he was applying a crazy amount of EQ, causing his amp to clip). The K712 does supposedly have a much larger soundstage, if that's something you require.

The Blue Stella just look ridiculous. If your sense of fashion is as good as your taste in music, you should forget you ever looked at these things. ( << his eye is closed because he's wincing)

If returns are a concern, you should stay away from MassDrop. They only allow returns for manufacturing defects... Though now that I'm thinking about it, I don't know how that works with EU mandatory 14 day return period. You might want to look into it.

I have no experience with the German Maestros, but I have a feeling that either the HD 650 or DT 1990 will be an (significant) upgrade, not a sidegrade. If causing your old headphones to pale in comparison is a concern, it might be better to get a lesser headphone. It may seem counterintuitive, but it you'll probably end up wanting to upgrade those, too.

Hope this helps!

 

[Monsterzero]

Many of the headphones in your list require an amp to sound great.

If getting an amp at the current time is above what you can afford I would suggest focusing on headphones with low ohms (32) and high sensitivity.
I dont listen much to your genres of choice so I cannot offer any specific headphones to check out.

 

[megabigeye]

Many of the headphones in your list require an amp to sound great.

If getting an amp at the current time is above what you can afford I would suggest focusing on headphones with low ohms (32) and high sensitivity.
I dont listen much to your genres of choice so I cannot offer any specific headphones to check out.

I agree and disagree.

I agree because I don't know what kind of PC or phone @lamaslamas has and don't know whether they'd be sufficient to drive... Well, anything.

But I disagree because, as I pointed out above, I'm able to easily drive both the HD 650 and DT 1990 to deafening levels out of the headphone out on my MBA. Others have done the same on PCs to pleasing results. I'm currently listening to the DT 1990 on my Samsung S9-- doesn't sound as resolving as out of the MBA, but volume is fine. HD 650 is also fine, but is a little softer. I would imagine that a phone like something from the LG V-series would sound great. So, no, they don't sound as great as being able to pump thousands of milliwatts into them, but then the Oppo PM-3 at 26Ω and 102dB/mW also sound (to my ear) significantly better with a lot of power.
Always be careful when looking at headphone specs and measurements, as they can be very misleading if you don't know how to read/interpret them and/or have an intimate knowledge of what they mean. Some manufacturers list measurements in dB/mW and some list dB/V. These are NOT the same measurement, so BE CAREFUL.

My advice would be to buy from a place that has a good return policy (or just take advantage of the EU 14 day return policy) and to test the headphones with the equipment you have.

Also, the more I look at the Blue Ella the more I'm put off by it. Maybe it's good, maybe it's junk, I have no idea. But the thought of a battery powered amplifier in a headphone does not sound like a good idea to me. For one thing, is the battery user-replaceable with a common sort of battery? For another, by design they require double amping, which sounds to me like another way to potentially screw things up.

 

[lamaslamas]

Thanks for all your feedbacks guys!

At the end of the day I decided to pull the trigger on a pair of Audeze lcd2c though they were not quite in my budget range, but I found a deal from a UK reseller, 14 days money back guarantee.

Too bad I noticed a pair of woody lcd2 at almost the same price (actually 50€ more expensive), only after my order was already been processed, so I stuck with the classics.
I hope I won't regret my choice, will let you know, they're supposed to arrive before Xmas

Thanks again