Android phones and USB DACs
Sep 29, 2016 at 5:15 PM Post #8,371 of 9,526
Hey, Wayne!
I can't say the S7 is bad, just didn't feel comfortable for me. The UI is a bit clunky, apps kept appearing and disappearing on the screens, the battery ran down more quickly than I thought it should. Again, I'm coming from an HTC phone, so the changes, while not earth shattering, made it not as natural to me. I also hated the sound of the phone (used as a phone), but the HTC doesn't sound any better
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The HTC does sound better if you play stuff through the built in speakers, though (though it isn't going to replace anyone's stereo). And, it sounds better through headphones than the S7 (though using an external DAC/Amp will negate any advantage here).
just my impressions, everyone in the Verizon store thought I was crazy, preferred the Samsung. Getting old to change my habits, I guess, comfortable with the UI on the HTC.

 
That, or you are in fact crazy! 
tongue.gif

 
I haven't used any android phones other than Samsung, so I can't compare. But I probably will when I upgrade.
 
The thing I like about the S5 is replaceable battery, microSD card slot, and waterproof (fully accidentally tested by yours truly lol). I think they removed all of those good features in the S6 (what were they thinking?) but added back a couple of them for the S7.
 
Anyway, as far as sound is concerned, I can't get any joy listening to music via the headphone jack on the S5. But using the UAPP app and the ZuperDAC brings me plenty of joy, so they will be attached to whichever phone I eventually upgrade to.
 
Sep 29, 2016 at 6:15 PM Post #8,372 of 9,526
Hey, Wayne!

I can't say the S7 is bad, just didn't feel comfortable for me. The UI is a bit clunky, apps kept appearing and disappearing on the screens, the battery ran down more quickly than I thought it should. Again, I'm coming from an HTC phone, so the changes, while not earth shattering, made it not as natural to me. I also hated the sound of the phone (used as a phone), but the HTC doesn't sound any better :mad:

The HTC does sound better if you play stuff through the built in speakers, though (though it isn't going to replace anyone's stereo). And, it sounds better through headphones than the S7 (though using an external DAC/Amp will negate any advantage here).

just my impressions, everyone in the Verizon store thought I was crazy, preferred the Samsung. Getting old to change my habits, I guess, comfortable with the UI on the HTC.


That, or you are in fact crazy! :p

I haven't used any android phones other than Samsung, so I can't compare. But I probably will when I upgrade.

The thing I like about the S5 is replaceable battery, microSD card slot, and waterproof (fully accidentally tested by yours truly lol). I think they removed all of those good features in the S6 (what were they thinking?) but added back a couple of them for the S7.

Anyway, as far as sound is concerned, I can't get any joy listening to music via the headphone jack on the S5. But using the UAPP app and the ZuperDAC brings me plenty of joy, so they will be attached to whichever phone I eventually upgrade to.


Yeah, I think it is just a personal preference thing. The S7 IS waterproof again (the HTC is "water resistant", but not as waterproof as the Samsung, one thing that made me think twice about trading it in). But the S7 just seemed unpredictable to me, went on and butt dialed all the time, apps moved and set off without my wanting them to. The HTC is faster (though phones these days are so quick that the difference won't make a big difference in my life. Apps do open pretty much instantly, though, the Samsung had a slight lag in comparison). I almost went over to the Apple side (the evil empire). Everyone in my family uses an iPhone except me. The headphone jack pretty much made that not happen, though).
 
Sep 29, 2016 at 6:30 PM Post #8,373 of 9,526
Yeah, I think it is just a personal preference thing. The S7 IS waterproof again (the HTC is "water resistant", but not as waterproof as the Samsung, one thing that made me think twice about trading it in). But the S7 just seemed unpredictable to me, went on and butt dialed all the time, apps moved and set off without my wanting them to. The HTC is faster (though phones these days are so quick that the difference won't make a big difference in my life. Apps do open pretty much instantly, though, the Samsung had a slight lag in comparison). I almost went over to the Apple side (the evil empire). Everyone in my family uses an iPhone except me. The headphone jack pretty much made that not happen, though).


Did you see what some people are calling $150 Apple ear tampons? I beginning to think that part of their marketing plan sounds like, "No jack = selling wireless earpods at $150 a pop to the faithful." And when one is lost, easily, break out the wallet. I expect that there will be plenty of angry customers.
 
Sep 29, 2016 at 6:58 PM Post #8,374 of 9,526
Yeah, I think it is just a personal preference thing. The S7 IS waterproof again (the HTC is "water resistant", but not as waterproof as the Samsung, one thing that made me think twice about trading it in). But the S7 just seemed unpredictable to me, went on and butt dialed all the time, apps moved and set off without my wanting them to. The HTC is faster (though phones these days are so quick that the difference won't make a big difference in my life. Apps do open pretty much instantly, though, the Samsung had a slight lag in comparison). I almost went over to the Apple side (the evil empire). Everyone in my family uses an iPhone except me. The headphone jack pretty much made that not happen, though).



Did you see what some people are calling $150 Apple ear tampons? I beginning to think that part of their marketing plan sounds like, "No jack = selling wireless earpods at $150 a pop to the faithful." And when one is lost, easily, break out the wallet. I expect that there will be plenty of angry customers.


Never really wanted an iPhone, but it would be convenient to be on the same system as my wife and 2 daughters in some ways. But the ear tampons were definitely not going to do it for me! Apple and their closed, "you must do it our way" system has always been something off putting for me.
 
Sep 29, 2016 at 8:40 PM Post #8,375 of 9,526
Never really wanted an iPhone, but it would be convenient to be on the same system as my wife and 2 daughters in some ways. But the ear tampons were definitely not going to do it for me! Apple and their closed, "you must do it our way" system has always been something off putting for me.

Android is far more accommodating to users. I use Nova Launcher to replace the UI, it is very customizable, even has a variety of transition effects (including 3D) for when you swipe across new desktop screens. Apple does have a good USB audio implementation which works with all of my DACs, none of which are Apple approved/licensed DACs. A couple of years ago, that wouldn't fly as they had a proprietary implementation that required licensing which drove up prices.
 
Sep 30, 2016 at 1:19 PM Post #8,377 of 9,526
  I have been trying to get a FiiO K1 to work with my Droid Force Z, but can't get it to work.  I tried several apps, and sometimes I'd get 5-10 seconds of audio, but one app finally gave me an error that indicated not enough power.  I'm thinking that a powered DAC might work, the Q1 is powered correct?  Would that be a good solution?  How long does the battery last on it?  Are there better solutions for slightly more money, or is that a good entry level one to try?

Have you tried a powered hub in between the phone and K1? I don't think that the K1 is designed for mobile OTG use because of the power requirement. I had similar issues with the Q1 requiring a hub (not powered though) on my Galaxy S5 and Galaxy Tab A but with the Galaxy S7E and Moto G(2015) no hub was needed so it could be a try and see scenario. If you like the sound of the K1 then you will probably be okay with the sound of the Q1. Can't say I've ever run the battery dry on the Q1, Fiio suggest 30 hours, I can't verify this but after 9 hours in the office it was still going.
 
I don't use my Q1 that much now because I tend to use my Dragonfly Black and I prefer the sound from that.
 
If you want to spend more then there is the Oppo HA-2 which fits well and looks good with mobile phones.
 
Sep 30, 2016 at 1:45 PM Post #8,378 of 9,526
I bought a K1 to use with my Droid Force Z but it doesn't work.  Sometimes I'd get 5-10 seconds of audio before it cut out.  I found an app that gave me an error message indicating not enough power.  So I think it's a power issue from the USB C port.
 
I'm thinking a powered USB DAC would work.  The Q1 is powered, right?  I'm thinking of trying it, it should provide better audio than the stock DAC right?
 
Sep 30, 2016 at 2:42 PM Post #8,379 of 9,526
  I bought a K1 to use with my Droid Force Z but it doesn't work.  Sometimes I'd get 5-10 seconds of audio before it cut out.  I found an app that gave me an error message indicating not enough power.  So I think it's a power issue from the USB C port.
 
I'm thinking a powered USB DAC would work.  The Q1 is powered, right?  I'm thinking of trying it, it should provide better audio than the stock DAC right?


The FiiO E18 doesn't draw power from the source.
 
Oct 1, 2016 at 12:06 AM Post #8,380 of 9,526
Connecting my Galaxy S6 to a Fiio Q1 (via OTG), I've noticed that the volume control on the phone still works (I'm not using any app at the moment, just native OS).  

Firstly, shouldn't the volume control on the phone be bypassed in this case?  

Second, I understand that many adjust the source volume to around 75% (or just below max) when using an external app.  Does this same rule apply to the "digital" volume control that's going on when connecting to an external DAC?  In other words, should I set the phone volume to 100% in this case?


You can still gain/attenuate the signal represented by the digital values, so no, volume control should not be disabled. It's SW gain pre-DAC.

As to what you should set it to, it depends on how the API for your device handles volume control. If it's strictly attenuation, then set it to 100%. The goal is bit perfect.
 
Oct 1, 2016 at 12:19 AM Post #8,381 of 9,526
You can still gain/attenuate the signal represented by the digital values, so no, volume control should not be disabled. It's SW gain pre-DAC.

As to what you should set it to, it depends on how the API for your device handles volume control. If it's strictly attenuation, then set it to 100%. The goal is bit perfect.


I see. Curious if all Android devices handle volume control the same or if it varies based on manufacturer. How low level is this API and would there be any benefit for a third party to override it? I guess what I'm trying to get it at is if there's a somewhat reliable way to assert that most (if not all) Android devices behave the same way.
 
Oct 1, 2016 at 1:24 AM Post #8,382 of 9,526
I think this behaviour is actually baked into Android and that possibly the only Android based devices that may be different are those dedicated Android DAPs that are designed solely for music playback and hi-res audio. 
 
I've only played with a few Android devices and they have all been the same and from comments made by others it seems to be common across devices.
 
UAPP does allow you more control at a hardware level.
 

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