And another member turfs digital for vinyl

[ADD]

I am sitting here in aural bliss...

Whilst typing this post, I'm listening to a Mercury Living Presence reissue on the Classic Records label. The LP (Ravel Rapsodie Espagnole / La Valse, etc) is brand new as is the completely stock Project Debut III Phono turntable.

The turntable has actually been sitting here for a week - completely setup but waiting for my first LP to arrive from Elusive Disk in the States. After setting the turntable up last week, I initially had what I thought was a problem with the noise floor. After buying a Monster HT200 power cleansing thingy the A/C noise floor has diminished by 6 dB - and is now at manufacturer's spec (or actually just a touch below it now). Obviously I have second rate mains power...

I have the CD version of this LP on the redbook reissue from the 1990s. Even with the Project Debut III and the most basic Ortofon OM5E cartridge, this LP setup is blowing the CD into the weeds, trampling on it, spitting it out, rubbing it into the ground with it's heal and throwing it into the garbage bin.

This is the first time in 22 years that I have been able to listen to reproduced orchestral music at a realistic concert hall volume and absolutely zero fatigue, no whincing and no whining about synthetic sounding violins.

This has really exceeded my expectations. I had read good reviews about the Project as a good entry level setup but I was still thinking that CD would still be better. Well it doesn't even come remotely close.

All I can say is that given the rather lukewarm attitude that vinylphiles have towards low end turntables, then a top end setup must actually sound better than the real thing

I had intended some upgrades to the cartridge right from the start, however I think I will put those plans on hold - the sound is already so very close to my hopes that mucking with things might not be good for the synergy (the other components are a Cute Beyond amplifier powered by my own home built battery power supply and HD555 phones).

I will, most likely, invest in the better OM20 stylus however - that would seem to be a sensible thing to do.

On the downside, surface noise (as in ticks and pops) is a tad higher than I would have expected from a brand new LP, however I noticed that after a mild cleaning with demineralised water and a Meguires Micro Fibre cloth that this noise was greatly diminished. I was under the impression that a brand new record wouldn't need anything other than the slighest de-dusting with a brush, but it seems they could do with a bit of a water wash too. On another plus side, I was dreading all sorts of mechanical problems such as inner groove distortion, wow, flutter, rumble etc, but I am not getting any of these at all (apart from very slight wow on the inner grooves) - at least to any extent that intrudes on the listening experience.

It would seem that my cat really appreciates the vinyl too - I recorded a track at 24-95 and saw this upon performing spectrogram analysis:

So,, anyone want to buy a hundred cheap CDs?

I can get far more on vinyl than CD as well!

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADD /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is the first time in 22 years that I have been able to listen to reproduced orchestral music at a realistic concert hall volume and absolutely zero fatigue, no whincing and no whining about synthetic sounding violins. All I can say is that given the rather lukewarm attitude that vinylphiles have towards low end turntables, then a top end setup must actually sound better than the real thing

Cool, glad you're enjoying it. As a former violinist I can never understand how anyone can say the instrument sounds better on a CD. Your cat is right!

Turntables like the Pro-Ject and Rega are really impressive compared to the crappy decks that most people will have heard that came bundled with a midi system etc...

But in my experience so far the higher end decks are two or three times better than the entry level ones, unlike digital upgrades where you pay a lot of money for pretty subtle improvements.

Better than the real thing? My girlfriend often complains about the poor acoustics in the Albert Hall or the slightly dry ambiance of the Cadogan Hall compared to listening to the same thing at home

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADD /img/forum/go_quote.gif I will, most likely, invest in the better OM20 stylus however - that would seem to be a sensible thing to do. On the downside, surface noise (as in ticks and pops) is a tad higher than I would have expected from a brand new LP, however I noticed that after a mild cleaning with demineralised water and a Meguires Micro Fibre cloth that this noise was greatly diminished. I was under the impression that a brand new record wouldn't need anything other than the slighest de-dusting with a brush, but it seems they could do with a bit of a water wash too. On another plus side, I was dreading all sorts of mechanical problems such as inner groove distortion, wow, flutter, rumble etc, but I am not getting any of these at all (apart from very slight wow on the inner grooves) - at least to any extent that intrudes on the listening experience.

Noise on new records is caused by the mold release agents they use during pressing. Wet cleaning with a vacuum machine is the way to go but these are expensive. Great for 2nd hand records though as you've heard!

Stylus profiles also get better as you go up the OM range and this will result in much less surface noise.

 

[ADD]

Hi memepool,

I have to publically thank you for your help over the last couple of weeks. If you hadn't sent me those little snippets of LP sound, I would not have been brave enough to spend all that money. I know you mentioned the second hand dealer, but he was 2000 kilometres away whereas the Project dealer was only 5 minutes from home.

So you are a former violinist? Me too! No wonder we both were compelled to go vinyl - it does not sound right AT ALL on CD (or even SACD / DVD-A) - I've been listening to this vinyl for three hours non stop - I have absolutely zero listening fatigue and the violins finally sound right! Yay!

Yes, as for the stylus, my research was telling me that a cartridge upgrade was going to be rather pointless for this particular turntable, but that an upgrade to the OM20 stylus was worthwhile in order to get everything the turntable has to offer. The advantage is of course that I don't have to adjust the turntable or cartridge to upgrade the stylus - it's probably just a matter of re-balancing after installing it.

So what is the poor person's method of preparing a newly bought band new record? At the moment I am using distilled water, a micro fibre cloth and I have both a carbon brush and this Milty Pixall roller thingy on order. It sounds like I need a very mild solvent - seems like the distilled water isn't really going to do a thorough job.

 

[memepool]

A pleasure. I had no idea Brisbane was that far from Sydney. Australia really is huge

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADD /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, as for the stylus, my research was telling me that a cartridge upgrade was going to be rather pointless for this particular turntable, but that an upgrade to the OM20 stylus was worthwhile in order to get everything the turntable has to offer. The advantage is of course that I don't have to adjust the turntable or cartridge to upgrade the stylus - it's probably just a matter of re-balancing after installing it..

The difference is in the tip which will give you less surface noise and more detail the higher up you go. You may need to realign the stylus though as the finer tips are much more susceptible to misalignment which isn't going to notice on an OM10. I'm sure the delaer will oblige.


Quote:

Originally Posted by ADD /img/forum/go_quote.gif So what is the poor person's method of preparing a newly bought band new record? At the moment I am using distilled water, a micro fibre cloth and I have both a carbon brush and this Milty Pixall roller thingy on order. It sounds like I need a very mild solvent - seems like the distilled water isn't really going to do a thorough job.

There are a few things to look out for. The Allsop Orbitrac is meant to be the best non-vacuum solution but these can be quite hard to find. Also the Knosti Disco Antistat is good for really grubby old records, basically giving them a bath. Longterm though if you plan on buying any 2nd hand then a vacuum machine is the way to go, as getting the gunk out of the grooves is the hard part and if left there will wear your stylus out twice as fast, so they pay for themslves pretty quickly.

 

[Hellenback]

Just a note from a lowly SACD lover: I'd get listening fatigue too if I had stayed with my HD555s! (Regardless of the source)

 

[happyangryhappy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADD /img/forum/go_quote.gif So what is the poor person's method of preparing a newly bought band new record? At the moment I am using distilled water, a micro fibre cloth and I have both a carbon brush and this Milty Pixall roller thingy on order. It sounds like I need a very mild solvent - seems like the distilled water isn't really going to do a thorough job.

Congratulations on your new table!

I too am continually amazed by the performance of this somewhat lost format.

Anyway, in regards to record cleaning, since I noticed you mentioned your DIY power supply, if you are comfortable building one yourself, you can build a very competent record vacuum for less than $100. All you need is a old turntable for parts, an wet/dry vacuum and a VPI conversion arm which are readily available for about $50. I built one similar to the one in this thread and ended up selling a Nitty Gritty which I did not think performed as well.

 

[ADD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellenback /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just a note from a lowly SACD lover: I'd get listening fatigue too if I had stayed with my HD555s! (Regardless of the source)

And just a note from a lowly vinyl lover: I get listening fatigue if I listen to anything digital (Regardless of the headphone).

 

[johnsonad]

Congrats and welcome! I've bought nothing but vinyl since my rig got up and running. As stated before, upgrade as soon as possible, you will notice large differences in both sound and the pain in your wallet!

 

[kugino]

i got eva cassidy's "songbird" the other day and finally got around to listening to it today...AMAZING! eva is fantastic and the recording is great.

i also got diana krall's "from this moment" and it's very noisy! brand new and i cleaned it twice...but pops and crackles galore. What? but when it's clear the sound is beautiful...vinyl rocks.

 

[gz76]

Congrats ADD! Glad to hear you're enjoying your vinyl so much.

 

[Herandu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kugino /img/forum/go_quote.gif i got eva cassidy's "songbird" the other day and finally got around to listening to it today...AMAZING! eva is fantastic and the recording is great. i also got diana krall's "from this moment" and it's very noisy! brand new and i cleaned it twice...but pops and crackles galore. What? but when it's clear the sound is beautiful...vinyl rocks.

You need to give it an antistatic treatment. Look for a Zerostat or Milly antistatic gun, or get an antistatic cleaning brush with the liquid.
If you have a decent collection, get the Nagaoka antistatic inner sleeves. They tend to come in bundles of 50.

 

[kugino]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herandu /img/forum/go_quote.gif You need to give it an antistatic treatment. Look for a Zerostat or Milly antistatic gun, or get an antistatic cleaning brush with the liquid. If you have a decent collection, get the Nagaoka antistatic inner sleeves. They tend to come in bundles of 50.

okay...will do. so the clicks and pops aren't from dust? they're from static? hmmm...

 

[Herandu]

Yep. Exiting isn't it

. After a while it stops being obvious. It's like the quick cough of someone in a classical concert.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kugino /img/forum/go_quote.gif okay...will do. so the clicks and pops aren't from dust? they're from static? hmmm...

Can be either, static is more of an electric crackle than a click or pop

It effects some set-ups more than others and also can vary with the weather !

You should definitely buy Nagaoka / Goldring type antistatic inner sleeves as a matter of course though as paper ones will gradually damage the playing surface.

Most audiophile pressings are packed with propper inners these days though it's the older records that generally arn't.

 

[ADD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gz76 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Congrats ADD! Glad to hear you're enjoying your vinyl so much.

I'm enjoying it even more now than I was when I first posted on this thread! Already my brain has tuned out surface noise, ticks and pops and all I am hearing is the most wonderful music. It is as if I have finally been pardonned from 25 years of digital condemnation and released from the seemingly eternal dungeon of noughts and ones...and all this with the most basic entry level analogue gear - it is nothing special at all.

Finally, music is now incredibly involving, the music is now very light on it's feet. The resolution of bass, instrumental timbre and smoothness of presentation blows CD into the weeds. And I just don't want to stop listening. With even the best CDs I was bored after 10 minutes maximum. With vinyl, I can listen all day if I wanted to (infact I did on the weekend - all to the one and only LP I have! -does anyone remember the Goodies episode where the only record they had was "Walk in the Black Forest"?

Anyway, I have three more LPs arriving this week - two more Mercury Living Presence and one RCA Living Stereo. I already have a wishlist of around 40 LPs at Elusive Disk - all RCA Living Stereo, Mercury Living Presence, Everest and Decca reissues.

It's probably never been a better time to be alive and getting into vinyl - a great setup is very cheap these days and there is tonnes of music out there with so many new releases I can barely keep track of it all. Last time I heard a "proper" sound system with speakers and digital source that provided this sort of enjoyment and involvment I was looking at around $20K - although the most involving and enjoyable "proper" sound system I have ever heard (to this day) remains a modestly priced one I heard about 20 years ago. It was a Rega Plannar turntable connected to a Creek amplifier and Royd speakers.