[darkarn]

Hi, here's my current setup:
 
Computer > USB cable > Audinst HUD-MX1 > RCA to 3.5mm > Fred's 12AU7 tube amp > 3.5mm to RCA cable > RCA switch > RCA cable > Swans M10
 
Computer > USB cable > Audinst HUD-MX1 > RCA to 3.5mm > Fred's 12AU7 tube amp > 3.5mm to RCA cable > RCA switch > RCA to 3.5mm cable Modded Superlux HD668B or Beyerdynamics Custom ONE Pro
 
(all components same; just showing both ways that I use my setup)
 
As part of my planning for a better audio setup (as always ), I am eyeing either Garage 1217's amps or Little Dot MKIII to upgrade from my current tube amp. I noticed that they have a headphone out and also RCA ports labelled as Pre Amp.
 
Is it possible for me to switch between either of them (i.e. only one of them will be playing audio at a time)? This is so as I am planning to connect my powered speakers to Pre Amp and my headphones to the headphone out; idea is to let the amp play and colour the sound to either of them at any one time, which means I won't need more wires and the RCA switch.
 
If not, what other solutions do I have? (yes, I am considering a change of DAC too)
 
Thanks!

 

[darkarn]

1st post edited to show slight change in setup

 

[Muinarc]

I would email Jeremy at garage1217 (via contact link on their website) and ask, I believe some models can be modified to do what you are needing.

 

[darkarn]

Thanks, while I am not sure if I should be contacting him (or Little Dot's David) right now since I will not be buying so soon, that will be an option to consider.
 
Meanwhile, has anyone who has either models know about this?

Sidenote: I looked at Schiit's amps; the website explicitly states that for all models except Ragnarok that has a headphone out and RCA preamp out, audio will not be played from RCA preamp out if headphones are plugged in. I wonder if this is the case for only their amps, or is it industry standard to do so.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
Is it possible for me to switch between either of them (i.e. only one of them will be playing audio at a time)? This is so as I am planning to connect my powered speakers to Pre Amp and my headphones to the headphone out; idea is to let the amp play and colour the sound to either of them at any one time, which means I won't need more wires and the RCA switch.

 
I don't know about the Garage 1217 amps but generally most amps mute the preamp output when you plug in a headphone. The Little Dot does that.
 
Some other amplifiers have a manual switch in front, but these are just amplifiers, not warmifying colorifiers.
 
Manual switch on the left to select output - no need to unplug the headphone to switch to preamp or DAC output.

 

[darkarn]

   
I don't know about the Garage 1217 amps but generally most amps mute the preamp output when you plug in a headphone. The Little Dot does that.
 
Some other amplifiers have a manual switch in front, but these are just amplifiers, not warmifying colorifiers.
 
Manual switch on the left to select output - no need to unplug the headphone to switch to preamp or DAC output.

 
Thanks for confirming on Little Dot's amps, but I am not sure what's the definition between an amplifier and a warmifying colorifier; aren't they all just amps at the end of the day?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkarn /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Thanks for confirming on Little Dot's amps, but I am not sure what's the definition between an amplifier and a warmifying colorifier; aren't they all just amps at the end of the day?

 

An amplifier's job is to amplify the input signal, making it a stronger signal that can drive whatever headphone or speaker is hooked up to it without adding audible noise or distortion. In other words, the ideal precisely is that it does not "play and colour the sound to either of them at any one time," or at any time for that matter. Whatever the input signal is, it will not be coloured, it will not be altered at all. Of course, not all amps work perfectly, so some amps can produce less power and more distortion at certain impedance ranges, thus depending on the headphone (or speaker) they can do well with some but not all.

 

In any case you're asking for the tube amp and preamp to color the sound. AudioGD is not going to be the prime choice for that. Little Dot maybe but only up to a point - the MkIII is slightly less colored than the MkII. If what you want is to have Norah Jones sound pillowy soft like she already needs to have her sinuses cleared by snorting chili oil from a dimsum restaurant, the MkII is the safer bet for you.

 

[darkarn]

 

 

An amplifier's job is to amplify the input signal, making it a stronger signal that can drive whatever headphone or speaker is hooked up to it without adding audible noise or distortion. In other words, the ideal precisely is that it does not "play and colour the sound to either of them at any one time," or at any time for that matter. Whatever the input signal is, it will not be coloured, it will not be altered at all. Of course, not all amps work perfectly, so some amps can produce less power and more distortion at certain impedance ranges, thus depending on the headphone (or speaker) they can do well with some but not all.

 

In any case you're asking for the tube amp and preamp to color the sound. AudioGD is not going to be the prime choice for that. Little Dot maybe but only up to a point - the MkIII is slightly less colored than the MkII. If what you want is to have Norah Jones sound pillowy soft like she already needs to have her sinuses cleared by snorting chili oil from a dimsum restaurant, the MkII is the safer bet for you.

 
Thanks for the explanation, so in other words, usually, those amp/pre-amp sections in equipment designed/marketed as "DACs" just amplify the input signal coming from the DAC chips while those amp/pre-amp sections in equipment designed/marketed as "solid state amps/tube amps" amplify and colour the signal coming from the input jacks?
 
And yes, you brought up another good point: I will need to decide on what I exactly want in my future setup (e.g. how much colour in the SQ e.t.c.)

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkarn /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

Thanks for the explanation, so in other words, usually, those amp/pre-amp sections in equipment designed/marketed as "DACs" just amplify the input signal coming from the DAC chips while those amp/pre-amp sections in equipment designed/marketed as "solid state amps/tube amps" amplify and colour the signal coming from the input jacks?

 

No, the total opposite: they are not supposed to. DAC decodes the signal into analogue as it was intended to sound like, its output stage transmits it to the amp stage where either the preamp ideally would not need to alter it not even the signal strength (as in the reason why some prefer noise-free passive preamps - no active components to risk coloring it or complicating the circuit just to reduce that), or the amplifier stage amplifies the signal into one powerful enough to move a headphone or speaker. At no point should any of these sections alter the signal.

 

The exception though is when an engineer and company design and sell a warmifying boombasticator (usually tube amps) to warmify the signal and make a crap recording more boombastic. In some cases the effect is enough that not only will pop music sound less harsh, but pop in an otherwise properly recorded album and that gets screwed up (except most people who prefer this kind of sound don't realize that it actually is). On any other amp with my HD600 earpads worn out the deterioration on the sound quality isn't so bad, but with the LD MkII, Norah Jones sounds like she needs to get off the stage and snort chicken soup with chili oil to clear her sinus. Some otherwise proper sounding metal recordings also get the vocals and percussion pushed up against each other and the bass guitar gets too flabby with notes melding together. Note that not all tube amps do as much as this as some keep it to a minimum. Some hybrid amps and full tube amps (provided you're using headphones they can drive easily) just do enough of it so harsh, sharp cymbal crashes are rounded off a bit but not totally blunted.

 

 

 

Originally Posted by darkarn /img/forum/go_quote.gif

And yes, you brought up another good point: I will need to decide on what I exactly want in my future setup (e.g. how much colour in the SQ e.t.c.)

 

If you really like Norah Jones with sinusitis, I highly suggest you just get the HD650 and the Little Dot MkII or DarkVoice DV336. That's a headphone that for the most part starts rolling off the response after 2000hz, and then you drive it with an amp that will color the sound instead of just amplifying the signal. Add Brainwavz leather earpads if you want to skew the sound more for the bottom end when the earpads get too worn out. Oh, and wear them tight - the HD6x0 headphones are close to neutral when the drivers are farther out from the ears, something you'll have with new, very stiff pads.

 

[ld100]

Fostex has that I think. Looking for others that do that myself...

 

[darkarn]

 

 

No, the total opposite: they are not supposed to. DAC decodes the signal into analogue as it was intended to sound like, its output stage transmits it to the amp stage where either the preamp ideally would not need to alter it not even the signal strength (as in the reason why some prefer noise-free passive preamps - no active components to risk coloring it or complicating the circuit just to reduce that), or the amplifier stage amplifies the signal into one powerful enough to move a headphone or speaker. At no point should any of these sections alter the signal.

 

The exception though is when an engineer and company design and sell a warmifying boombasticator (usually tube amps) to warmify the signal and make a crap recording more boombastic. In some cases the effect is enough that not only will pop music sound less harsh, but pop in an otherwise properly recorded album and that gets screwed up (except most people who prefer this kind of sound don't realize that it actually is). On any other amp with my HD600 earpads worn out the deterioration on the sound quality isn't so bad, but with the LD MkII, Norah Jones sounds like she needs to get off the stage and snort chicken soup with chili oil to clear her sinus. Some otherwise proper sounding metal recordings also get the vocals and percussion pushed up against each other and the bass guitar gets too flabby with notes melding together. Note that not all tube amps do as much as this as some keep it to a minimum. Some hybrid amps and full tube amps (provided you're using headphones they can drive easily) just do enough of it so harsh, sharp cymbal crashes are rounded off a bit but not totally blunted.

 

 

 

 

If you really like Norah Jones with sinusitis, I highly suggest you just get the HD650 and the Little Dot MkII or DarkVoice DV336. That's a headphone that for the most part starts rolling off the response after 2000hz, and then you drive it with an amp that will color the sound instead of just amplifying the signal. Add Brainwavz leather earpads if you want to skew the sound more for the bottom end when the earpads get too worn out. Oh, and wear them tight - the HD6x0 headphones are close to neutral when the drivers are farther out from the ears, something you'll have with new, very stiff pads.

 
Ah I see, thanks for the clarification. And I am more of a "details" kind of a person. Some musicality or color may be fine for me, but not all the time lol...

  Fostex has that I think. Looking for others that do that myself...

 
Thanks for the heads up! That's another manufacturer confirmed

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkarn /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Ah I see, thanks for the clarification. And I am more of a "details" kind of a person. Some musicality or color may be fine for me, but not all the time lol...

 

That's one of the things that is popularly misunderstood. Detail and musicality are not mutually exclusive, the problem is that what people deem to be "detailed" tends to have a treble peak (which isn't "detail," but an overemphasis) and possibly an early bass roll-off, like the K701 (and then if it goes deeper and the treble has a peak it's called "V-shaped," when the actual graph shape looks like an upside down W). And then by contrast what many consider to be "musical" has a gentle treble roll off and maybe louder below 1000hz also, like the HD650 and LCD-2. Alternately it's something with a graph that looks like shark's teeth, going up and down all throughout, with spikes in spots that emphasize certain instruments, like Grados.

 

Technically speaking, keeping everything as close as possible to neutral would actually have both detail and musicality. The problem there is that since you can't get anything with a perfectly flat response, you have to end up with some kind of compromise. I personally don't mind using EQ, especially a proper parametric. And LCD-2 with a low-shelf EQ to trim the response from 1000hz to 10hz a little bit to balance out with the rest of the range is a good alternative, particularly because it doesn't roll off as severely as most dynamic drivers somewhere below 100hz, so trimming the entire range from 10hz to 1000hz wouldn't end up with you getting even less response from 20hz to 60hz or so (unlike if you did this with, say, an HD650 or HD600). That said, I use an HD650, and I apply a low shelf boost to the low bass that rolls off, and then I just trim the peaks at 3500hz and 8000hz.

 

[darkarn]

 

 

That's one of the things that is popularly misunderstood. Detail and musicality are not mutually exclusive, the problem is that what people deem to be "detailed" tends to have a treble peak (which isn't "detail," but an overemphasis) and possibly an early bass roll-off, like the K701 (and then if it goes deeper and the treble has a peak it's called "V-shaped," when the actual graph shape looks like an upside down W). And then by contrast what many consider to be "musical" has a gentle treble roll off and maybe louder below 1000hz also, like the HD650 and LCD-2. Alternately it's something with a graph that looks like shark's teeth, going up and down all throughout, with spikes in spots that emphasize certain instruments, like Grados.

 

Technically speaking, keeping everything as close as possible to neutral would actually have both detail and musicality. The problem there is that since you can't get anything with a perfectly flat response, you have to end up with some kind of compromise. I personally don't mind using EQ, especially a proper parametric. And LCD-2 with a low-shelf EQ to trim the response from 1000hz to 10hz a little bit to balance out with the rest of the range is a good alternative, particularly because it doesn't roll off as severely as most dynamic drivers somewhere below 100hz, so trimming the entire range from 10hz to 1000hz wouldn't end up with you getting even less response from 20hz to 60hz or so (unlike if you did this with, say, an HD650 or HD600). That said, I use an HD650, and I apply a low shelf boost to the low bass that rolls off, and then I just trim the peaks at 3500hz and 8000hz.

 
Ah I see, thanks! Maybe I am using the terms wrongly after all... As for EQ, I tried before but am unhappy with the crashes that come with it (and also being someone who switches between headphones and speakers on an daily basis; hard to find a setting that can satisfy both sides)

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Originally Posted by darkarn /img/forum/go_quote.gif

As for EQ, I tried before but am unhappy with the crashes that come with it (and also being someone who switches between headphones and speakers on an daily basis; hard to find a setting that can satisfy both sides)

 

Well that depends on what app you're using. I use Neutron Music Player's parametric EQ on my HD600, and EQ profiles can be set to work only with USB out (as with my HD600, which is driven by a DAC-HPamp), only with headphone output (my ASG-1 IEMs' own custom profile), and speakers (I haven't used one in years, and only use Spotify for BT speakers). On my desktop I use the Asus Xonar suite with my soundcard and it's a matter of pulling up which profile when I switch between my HD330 headphones and my desktop speakers.

 

Were you using Foobar? Never had any problems with that player even with all the EQ and Crossfeed plus other extensions running, but that's on Windows 7. I haven't really run it on Win10 as I don't listen on my gaming rig (it just has a spare 1TB drive I keep back ups of music files in) and my next laptop will use an SSD, and only run Spotify.

 

[darkarn]

Well that depends on what app you're using. I use Neutron Music Player's parametric EQ on my HD600, and EQ profiles can be set to work only with USB out (as with my HD600, which is driven by a DAC-HPamp), only with headphone output (my ASG-1 IEMs' own custom profile), and speakers (I haven't used one in years, and only use Spotify for BT speakers). On my desktop I use the Asus Xonar suite with my soundcard and it's a matter of pulling up which profile when I switch between my HD330 headphones and my desktop speakers.

Were you using Foobar? Never had any problems with that player even with all the EQ and Crossfeed plus other extensions running, but that's on Windows 7. I haven't really run it on Win10 as I don't listen on my gaming rig (it just has a spare 1TB drive I keep back ups of music files in) and my next laptop will use an SSD, and only run Spotify.

Yep I am using foobar in Win7, can't remember what EQ software I used though