Amps that can drive the HiFiMan HE-6 planar headphones
Mar 1, 2015 at 9:43 PM Post #3,871 of 6,061
^^
"That takes me back to the First Watt line of amps. He made an amp just for your flavor - what ever it is. M2, J2, F1J, F2J, F3. F5, F6 - the SIT 2. A lot to choose from, but one that fits your preference for sure. All while having the technical prowess of any TOTL amp out there."

They are good value but not sure I would say they are as good as anything out there. For example, thought that the m2 had strengths but also that it was a bit weak in the attack, particularly with piano and accoustic guitar. Sit monoblocks I have heard I enjoyed quite a bit but they were much more costly.
 
Mar 1, 2015 at 10:00 PM Post #3,872 of 6,061
Well, of course I can say they are "as" good as anything out there.  
 
Just like you think the way you think about the M2, there's many out that think it's the bet amp they every heard.  The M2 being weak in the attack is just your opinion of the amp and does not fit your flavor - that's all, that's why there's more to choose from.  There's a boat load of others that love the M2.  
 
You just validated my point. 
 
Mar 1, 2015 at 10:00 PM Post #3,873 of 6,061
^^
"That takes me back to the First Watt line of amps. He made an amp just for your flavor - what ever it is. M2, J2, F1J, F2J, F3. F5, F6 - the SIT 2. A lot to choose from, but one that fits your preference for sure. All while having the technical prowess of any TOTL amp out there."

They are good value but not sure I would say they are as good as anything out there. For example, thought that the m2 had strengths but also that it was a bit weak in the attack, particularly with piano and accoustic guitar. Sit monoblocks I have heard I enjoyed quite a bit but they were much more costly.

 
The HE-6 has weight playing piano which is difficult to reproduce with headphones. That's why I like my Audio Research amp with it.
 
Mar 2, 2015 at 12:31 PM Post #3,874 of 6,061
Sho nuff on the Master 10.  But for even less money the First Watt M2 is that.  I'd call the First Watt M2 the Master 10 with out the volume control.  

I head Blue circle was good as well.  Although a little on the pricey side.    Klaus Bunge at Odyssey is a great guy to deal with, and he could hook you up with an integrated amp for a very attractive price as well.

With a good amp, the HE-6 will give you what the LCD-2s are with more treble presence and a tad bit less on the fullness of the bass, but with better bass control and seperation and just more air.  the HE-6 will breath life in the music where the LCD-2 will suffocate it.

Flavors:

That takes me back to the First Watt line of amps.  He made an amp just for your flavor - what ever it is.  M2, J2, F1J, F2J, F3. F5, F6 - the SIT 2.  A lot to choose from, but one that fits your preference for sure.  All while having the technical prowess of any TOTL amp out there.

I wanna clear up the 'higher' price a bit.. :wink:
The blue circle customs are so good (quoting u my friend) because they are totally based on their speaker amps but then made in a light version.... :D
so basically they are speaker amps but with headphone output instead of speaker taps.
The prices for a true custom (built and designed for the customer) headphone amp (all of BC amps are custom in a way or another) to drive a he6 the right way start around 2900usd (in two case config) capable to drive a he6 perfectly. (A fellow headfi'er had one made for his he6 around that price, thats why i know this price..mine was more expensive). The price is that 'high' partly because of the huge and extremely high quality powersupply, and u can make it as extreme as ur wallet let u..there are no limits: they even made power amps on batteries..and i understand they are working on amps based on solar energy :p

And yeah..i still love my PaG...but it is picky what i connect to it...cables or headphone wise...especially on the dual 3pin xlr output.(..the extra SE output is much more forgiving.)
..its total unforgiven for stuff thats not on par with the rest..even powercables i found out make a difference...in good or bad way...in a very small influence..(i need 2 of the same powercables in my rig) but they do...so weird!

I hope one day to try out a first watt amp..u guys love them deeply :wink:
 
Mar 2, 2015 at 3:02 PM Post #3,875 of 6,061
^^
"That takes me back to the First Watt line of amps. He made an amp just for your flavor - what ever it is. M2, J2, F1J, F2J, F3. F5, F6 - the SIT 2. A lot to choose from, but one that fits your preference for sure. All while having the technical prowess of any TOTL amp out there."

They are good value but not sure I would say they are as good as anything out there. For example, thought that the m2 had strengths but also that it was a bit weak in the attack, particularly with piano and accoustic guitar. Sit monoblocks I have heard I enjoyed quite a bit but they were much more costly.


Exactly as Mr. Pass intended. The M2 has warm midrange and somewhat softer attacks and longer decay to get the richness of tube sound out of the MOSFET output stage.

If you prefer stronger attacks, try the J2 with JFET output stage. What you lose in midrange warmth, you gain in stronger attacks, more micro-details and wider soundstage. The bass is less full but has more impact.

I prefer the M2 with the HE-6 and the J2 with the LCD3.
 
Mar 2, 2015 at 8:04 PM Post #3,876 of 6,061
Exactly as Mr. Pass intended. The M2 has warm midrange and somewhat softer attacks and longer decay to get the richness of tube sound out of the MOSFET output stage.

If you prefer stronger attacks, try the J2 with JFET output stage. What you lose in midrange warmth, you gain in stronger attacks, more micro-details and wider soundstage. The bass is less full but has more impact.

I prefer the M2 with the HE-6 and the J2 with the LCD3.


Thanks. I get it, It is hard to get the richness out of.a solid state amp, particularly at the m2's price. I have three amps with tubes in them (with three tube preamps) and they are all more able on the attack than the m2 without sacrificing decay. Two of the amps cost much more, so I expect to get more. I thought hard about the j2, and if there had been a used one in stock I may have tried it, but, rather than choose between light on attack or light on decay, I chose to invest in a different preamp and to use the hybrid I already had.

I think the m2 has much merit, but I think that there are compromises involved. That was my point and why I think talking to the folks at Reno about the differences in the designs is important, as is the 30 day trial period. But I would also visit some shops and listen to different amps and different designs.
 
Mar 2, 2015 at 8:21 PM Post #3,877 of 6,061
I read that the M2 has an autoformer for its input stage - is this similar to the one used by McIntosh amps? So, if i were to plug headphones straight off the speaker taps, would I need to add a resistor across ?
 
Mar 2, 2015 at 10:34 PM Post #3,881 of 6,061
  Flavors:
 
That takes me back to the First Watt line of amps.  He made an amp just for your flavor - what ever it is.  M2, J2, F1J, F2J, F3. F5, F6 - the SIT 2.  A lot to choose from, but one that fits your preference for sure.  All while having the technical prowess of any TOTL amp out there.

 
Have you heard your HE-6s from the SIT 2?
 
Mar 3, 2015 at 12:22 AM Post #3,882 of 6,061
for the people here on a lookout for a first watt F1J - I might - just might sell mine soon , and my perfeatcwave dac Mk2 with bridge .  ill decide over the weekend .
 
Mar 3, 2015 at 9:09 AM Post #3,884 of 6,061
Thanks. I get it, It is hard to get the richness out of.a solid state amp, particularly at the m2's price. I have three amps with tubes in them (with three tube preamps) and they are all more able on the attack than the m2 without sacrificing decay. Two of the amps cost much more, so I expect to get more. I thought hard about the j2, and if there had been a used one in stock I may have tried it, but, rather than choose between light on attack or light on decay, I chose to invest in a different preamp and to use the hybrid I already had.

I think the m2 has much merit, but I think that there are compromises involved. That was my point and why I think talking to the folks at Reno about the differences in the designs is important, as is the 30 day trial period. But I would also visit some shops and listen to different amps and different designs.


Just a few more comments about the merits and limitations of Class-A amps driving the HE-6.

My 35 years of dabbling in home stero have left me with many speaker amps. Experimenting with them on the HE-6 led me to a few general understanding of their sound, limited of course To only the amps that I own.

The M2 and J2 are great matches for the HE-6 mostly because of their ultra smooth midrange, micro-details and expansive soundstage, the last two traits in most abundance with the J2. I was told by reliable sources that the F1J performs even better with the HE-6 but it cannot drive speakers with passive crossover which is enough reason for me not to buy it.

Despite all their virtues, these Class-A amps seem to share common sonic traits that are not necessarily synergistic with the HE-6: their bass is tight but lacking slightly in impact (too much control or lack of upper-bass overhang?) and the midrange, while ultra smooth and lovely, tend to sound slightly recessed. I should be careful here: the midrange of these amps are so smooth and free of the usual gunk you hear with most amps that, by comparison, they seem not to be as forward sounding. These amps almost seem to be too clean for the HE-6...

When I switched to Nelson Pass's earlier class-A designs such as his early Pass Aleph 0s or 3 of similar power rating, I hear a definitely bigger impact in the bass and more presence (noise?) in the midrange that make the HE-6 sound more "there" to my ears. The specs on these early amps (including noise floor) are not nearly as good as those of their younger bretherens, but their minor flaws(?) seem to make them better suited for the HE-6. Go figure.

Finally, when I switched to older Pass's amps, such as the Stasis S150 (75 wpc into 8 ohms) and S300 (150 wpc) which are also Class-A but with a sliding bias--some still continue to proclaim that Nelson cheated here--including the new Taiwanese Usher R 1.5 monoblocks using a Stasis design, the bass became positively thunderous. Sure the higher power helps but there is a difference in the quality of the bass that is common to these amps and not shared by their admittedly smaller and purer bred siblings.

All this is my round about way of saying that while the incredibly sound purety of the latest Class-A amps is something worth seeking, it is not a panacea for the HE-6. You are left wanting just a little more bass and more presence in the midrange. I compromised and settle for the slightly less purified sound of the older Stasis design to get more forward presentation and a little more impact in the bass. There are a bunch of Statis amps circulating on eBay, from the S150 (perfect size for the HE-6) to the S300 and S500 ( if you want to melt the HE-6) and the more affordable Nakamichi PA-5 and PA-7, which can always be tweaked to sound more like a Threshold (bigger caps ; higher bias).

But I would stay away from mass-produced receivers/integrated amps by large manufacturers designed to produced great THD and large power rating and always endowed with beautiful front panel to impressed consumers at the expense of the sound. With the exception of the HK775 and HK 870, my foray into the mass-market amps of the 70s and 80s met with rather disappointing results.
 
Mar 3, 2015 at 11:03 AM Post #3,885 of 6,061
Exactly as Mr. Pass intended. The M2 has warm midrange and somewhat softer attacks and longer decay to get the richness of tube sound out of the MOSFET output stage.

If you prefer stronger attacks, try the J2 with JFET output stage. What you lose in midrange warmth, you gain in stronger attacks, more micro-details and wider soundstage. The bass is less full but has more impact.

I prefer the M2 with the HE-6 and the J2 with the LCD3.

Interesting...does the M2 still have a bit of the "crisp" bass that I hear from the J2?  Do they have a different enough flavor  to own both(down the road)?
 

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