Amps that can drive the HiFiMan HE-6 planar headphones
Jan 11, 2015 at 1:29 AM Post #3,616 of 5,703

SilverEars

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  ^ No argument at all with the above, it's correct as I understand it.  But what wuwhere was trying to say according to his post was that there is an audible difference in sound quality between cheap and expensive resistor brands (Vishay) in the connector box plugged in to the amp.  And there I disagree, or at least, I don't see how they could audibly differ and have never read a technical article saying they do.  

I see your point that it's better to add an output resistor of any kind at the output than none if there is issue with noise as the noise amplified from the amp is pretty significant to a sensitive transducer compared to noise produced by the output resistor which should be insignificant in comparison.  
 
Jan 11, 2015 at 11:06 AM Post #3,617 of 5,703

Justin_Time

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OT but out of curiosity:  do you have a verifiable technical source for that statement that demonstrates audible (as opposed to theoretical) differences?  If you want to mention inductance:  for the resistor values typically used there the inductance is so small that it can't have any impact in the audible spectrum.

Xenophon,
 
This is a very old (and tired) argument that has raged through the High-End community for at least 30 years, perhaps more.
 
I do not think discussing it here for another 30 years will resolve anything.
 
You can read about this issue regarding more than just resistors (add speaker cables, interconnects, amplifier sounds...) in the abundant past literature and make up your own mind. 
 
Jan 11, 2015 at 5:28 PM Post #3,618 of 5,703

shayson1357

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  Xenophon,
 
This is a very old (and tired) argument that has raged through the High-End community for at least 30 years, perhaps more.
 
I do not think discussing it here for another 30 years will resolve anything.
 
You can read about this issue regarding more than just resistors (add speaker cables, interconnects, amplifier sounds...) in the abundant past literature and make up your own mind. 

or just read the rants on diyaudio or try some articles published about it :)
 
Jan 12, 2015 at 12:35 AM Post #3,619 of 5,703

Xenophon

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I'm aware of the  'arguments' regarding resistors, reason I 'asked' for a technical article proving a difference was because someone presented the brand upgrading effectiveness as cold fact, which it isn't, then pointed to an interview that really talks about something else entirely to support his thesis.   Anyway, I'm off to the sound science forum, no more incantations and putting gear in a holy circle at midnight. 
 
Jan 12, 2015 at 3:53 AM Post #3,620 of 5,703

ohhgourami

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  I need help from the EEs out there on using speaker amps with the HE-6 and other headphones.
 
 
I have been experimenting a bit lately and got outstanding results from the HE-6 using several amps with a wide range of power rating and designs--some of the recent successful amps are the First Watt M2, Threshold S300, Nakamichi PA-5 II, Mark Levinson KAV 400xi, Conrad-Johnson MV75, BAT VK75SE and, unexpectedly, the Harman Kardon HK775, 770 and 870. 
 
With more efficient headphones such as the HD800, TH900 and PS1000, however, I typically get a constant background noise (low hum, buzz or hiss depending on the headphones and amps) when everything is connected even with zero volume from the direct source (Oppo 105 or PS Audio PerfectWave Mk II) or from the preamp when one is used (Krell KAV 400xi or Jeff Roland Consummate).  It sounded like the noise is from the amps themselves and is louder with more efficient headphones.  This happened with or without 8-ohm arrays used at the speaker outputs.
 
Is this normal and is there any way to reduce or eliminate that noise?
 
Sorry to be off topic but I thought that folks using this thread may be the most knowledgeable about this problem--and hopefully solutions. Help me, Obi-wan Kenobi... 

 
Got rid of the noise floor with resistors. The KAV-400xi has really high gain so the noise floor is obvious. Used 100ohm and 3ohm 10W Dale Vishay resistors. Would gladly send you the resistors I used for the KAV-400xi for dirt cheap.
 
I use no resistors on my FPB-300cx which has almost no noise floor.
 
Jan 12, 2015 at 3:57 AM Post #3,621 of 5,703

NZtechfreak

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Got rid of the noise floor with resistors. The KAV-400xi has really high gain so the noise floor is obvious. Used 100ohm and 3ohm 10W Dale Vishay resistors. Would gladly send you the resistors I used for the KAV-400xi for dirt cheap.

I use no resistors on my FPB-300cx which has almost no noise floor.


As an on-topic/off-topic aside, are you still staying with the Ragnarok in your HE-6 setup? If you had further thoughts on the pairing I'm all ears.
 
Jan 12, 2015 at 4:24 AM Post #3,622 of 5,703

ohhgourami

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As an on-topic/off-topic aside, are you still staying with the Ragnarok in your HE-6 setup? If you had further thoughts on the pairing I'm all ears.


Nope! When I finally did some late night listening, the differences were obvious - big Krell was the winner. It's the only SS amp I've heard that can make staging seem real and solid. Rag is completely flat in that aspect, but does everything else just as good.
 
Jan 12, 2015 at 4:52 AM Post #3,623 of 5,703

NZtechfreak

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Thanks for the feedback. I guess I will hold off till I actually get to audition it next month then, delayed expenditure probably for the best from the point of view of financing anyways. May well mean I'm back to the drawing board for a bit longer, amps-wise.

Oh, and I meant to ask were you running it from HP out or speaker taps on the Rag? Or maybe you tried both? Potentially important detail.
 
Jan 12, 2015 at 5:17 AM Post #3,624 of 5,703

preproman

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Thanks for the feedback. I guess I will hold off till I actually get to audition it next month then, delayed expenditure probably for the best from the point of view of financing anyways. May well mean I'm back to the drawing board for a bit longer, amps-wise.

Oh, and I meant to ask were you running it from HP out or speaker taps on the Rag? Or maybe you tried both? Potentially important detail.

 
I think they're both one and the same.  So the way I understand it, it doesn't matter both put out the same amount out watts..  But as always this needs to be confirmed.
   
Got rid of the noise floor with resistors. The KAV-400xi has really high gain so the noise floor is obvious. Used 100ohm and 3ohm 10W Dale Vishay resistors. Would gladly send you the resistors I used for the KAV-400xi for dirt cheap.
 
I use no resistors on my FPB-300cx which has almost no noise floor.

 
Same with the Master 10.  I even use the amp with my HD800s now.  Now that was a big surprise.  
 
Jan 12, 2015 at 6:03 AM Post #3,625 of 5,703

kothganesh

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Got rid of the noise floor with resistors. The KAV-400xi has really high gain so the noise floor is obvious. Used 100ohm and 3ohm 10W Dale Vishay resistors. Would gladly send you the resistors I used for the KAV-400xi for dirt cheap.
 
I use no resistors on my FPB-300cx which has almost no noise floor.


Just the person I wanted to talk to....I got the Odyssey Stratos Extreme and hooked up the HE-6 via speaker taps....nothing but noise. What do I use?
 
Jan 12, 2015 at 7:29 AM Post #3,626 of 5,703

Xenophon

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Got rid of the noise floor with resistors. The KAV-400xi has really high gain so the noise floor is obvious. Used 100ohm and 3ohm 10W Dale Vishay resistors. Would gladly send you the resistors I used for the KAV-400xi for dirt cheap.
 
I use no resistors on my FPB-300cx which has almost no noise floor.


You use the 100R in series and 3R in parallel, right?  That's  31 dB attenuation 
eek.gif
  assuming your HE-6 has a perfect 50Z.  Ye Gods.... going to look up the specs on that beast.  I see why you went for the 10W rated ones.
 
Jan 12, 2015 at 8:06 AM Post #3,627 of 5,703

Anda

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You use the 100R in series and 3R in parallel, right?  That's  31 dB attenuation 
eek.gif
  assuming your HE-6 has a perfect 50Z.  Ye Gods.... going to look up the specs on that beast.  I see why you went for the 10W rated ones.

 
According to specs it has 35.8dB gain. Is that normal for an integrated amp?
My Yamaha M-4 has around 29dB and even though I'm using a passive pre I wouldn't mind having 26dB or maybe even 20dB.
 
Jan 12, 2015 at 10:42 AM Post #3,628 of 5,703

Torero

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Where buy a speaker cable for the HE-6 with the included resistors?
 
Jan 12, 2015 at 11:24 AM Post #3,629 of 5,703

Justin_Time

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Got rid of the noise floor with resistors. The KAV-400xi has really high gain so the noise floor is obvious. Used 100ohm and 3ohm 10W Dale Vishay resistors. Would gladly send you the resistors I used for the KAV-400xi for dirt cheap.
 
I use no resistors on my FPB-300cx which has almost no noise floor.

 


Just a clarification: I used the Krell 400xi as a pre-amp so that I could have a better volume control with various amps beyond adjusting the level out from DAC.

When I used the Krell's amp section and speaker outputs directly, it was dead silence. Even this entry-level Krell is very well designed and well built!

Sure I love to get (buy) a few Vishay resistors from you for noisier amps. I'll PM you. Thanks!
 
Jan 12, 2015 at 12:18 PM Post #3,630 of 5,703

musicinmymind

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Originally Posted by ohhgourami /img/forum/go_quote.gif
   
Got rid of the noise floor with resistors. The KAV-400xi has really high gain so the noise floor is obvious. Used 100ohm and 3ohm 10W Dale Vishay resistors. Would gladly send you the resistors I used for the KAV-400xi for dirt cheap.
 
I use no resistors on my FPB-300cx which has almost no noise floor.

 


Just a clarification: I used the Krell 400xi as a pre-amp so that I could have a better volume control with various amps beyond adjusting the level out from DAC.

When I used the Krell's amp section and speaker outputs directly, it was dead silence. Even this entry-level Krell is very well designed and well built!

Sure I love to get (buy) a few Vishay resistors from you for noisier amps. I'll PM you. Thanks!

 
Even I did not experience any noise from Krell 400xi, it always had no noise floor. Even I took this amp for meets held in DC Area, no one complain about noise floor and more than 20 guys had tried my setup then.
 
Not sure why @ohhgourami had this issue.
 

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