Amp vs DAC

[G-man]

Hi, i am looking to buy an amp and dac, together in the region of ~£200 (not more, preferably yes)
Due to the very, very, very helpful people over in the DIY area, i have (had?) decided to build a bijou and an alien. however, i was wondering, do you think that i should be spending more of the money on the dac, and less on the amp? (the rough ratio of the above in terms of price is 5:1). If so, which ones.
Also, would it really be better to build the amp and dac, in terms of "bang for the buck" or would ready made be better?

Thanks in advance

 

[tomb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gautam /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi, i am looking to buy an amp and dac, together in the region of ~£200 (not more, preferably yes) Due to the very, very, very helpful people over in the DIY area, i have (had?) decided to build a bijou and an alien. however, i was wondering, do you think that i should be spending more of the money on the dac, and less on the amp? (the rough ratio of the above in terms of price is 5:1). If so, which ones. Also, would it really be better to build the amp and dac, in terms of "bang for the buck" or would ready made be better? Thanks in advance

I haven't followed your thread that closely in the DIY section, but IMHO, you might want to re-think that decision about the Bijou. I'm certain it's a fine amp, but that thing is a true high-voltage tube amp. Even touching in the wrong place will kill you, much less building and trouble-shooting it. So unless you're an experienced DIYer, you'd better know exactly what you're doing. I've built a couple of dozen DIY amps and I'm still scared to mess with one.

As for the Alien, I think it's a fine DAC, but the noise floor is a little high. With very high-level/sensitive amps, you may hear a bit of background hiss. In return for that sligh fault, you may find that it's quite a bit livelier than many commercial DACs and has great detail.

An Alien makes a excellent source for a PIMETA, CKKIII, a Millett MAX, a SOHA, Starving Student Millett and many others. By the time you start connecting one to an M3 or PPAV2, though, you may find a need to upgrade the Alien to something else. The Bijou may be in that category, too. Certainly, the Alien would be an inappropriate mis-match with a B22. You'd want a much better source for one of those.

These are just my own subjective opinions, but I've heard and/or built many of the combinations just mentioned, including about a half-dozen Alien DACs.

 

[hockeyb213]

it is a good bang for the buck but it won't be as polished and may not have the sq of a company built amp/dac

 

[aaron313]

Source first.

Are you at all experienced with DIY?

 

[fordgtlover]

I would agree with Tomb's comments about the Bijou being a serious DIYer amp; it is not to be messed with. Having said that, I absolutely love mine. It sounds amazing. A Bijou should offer you many years of enjoyment.

I am in no rush to upgrade to the next step from my Bijou (whatever the next step is), but I am wondering about my source, which is a Monica USB.

Ahhh, the upgrade cycle - does it ever end.

 

[G-man]

although i have little or no experience, i have expertise on my side as me Electronic Engineer dad. so do not worry about that. so, do you recommend that i build/buy a better DAC before an amp? considering i (will) have a 650, i was thinking that an amp would be of more benefit. was i mistaken?

 

[G-man]

anyone?

 

[bada bing]

I'd offer a further opinion on the choice of the Bijou for a first/primary amp. Besides the concerns already mentioned on complexity and hazard, the finished Bijou is a better piece of equipment as a contrast against other amps & experience than it is as an only / early amp in the hobby. If you aren't a multiple amp type of hobbiest, I wouldn't recommend the Bijou as an only amp. It "sounds" pretty tubey - well beyond most commercial offerings. Sound wise it's an excellent amp, but well out of the mainstream in presentation. It has some technical quirks that require more user input and knowledge to operate. As an analogy, it is much more of a sports car than an everyday commuter.

If you had a CKKIII and a SOHA under your belt and in your rotation(as an example of DIY experience), I'd say go for it.

The CKKIII & Alien pairing mentioned in posts above makes a very nice match and a very good value. Lot's easier to build and operate as well. As a first desktop amp, I'd strongly recommend a CKKIII or a pimeta. I like the zero (as DAC only) better than the alien for desktop use, if your budget will stretch a little.

 

[Penchum]

The Zero DAC/Amp would be a really nice choice. If you are running on a budget (like most of us), you can use the Zero's built-in headphone amp until you either make or can purchase a separate amp, to be driven by the Zero's DAC output. Many folks in the Zero thread have used this "upgrade path" to help them save up the money for a tube or SS amp later on.

Many report that the built-in headphone amp is good enough to be their SS amp, so they will buy a separate tube amp. Now they can choose which type of amp they want to listen to at any time.

The review thread is here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...re-amp-269458/ and it is rather large.

If you have questions on the Zero, post them in the review thread and those guys will help you out. Good luck!

 

[Uncle Erik]

I'd put the bulk of the money into a good DIY amp. When you break down the labor costs, your money goes a lot further than it does with a DAC. DACs go through big changes every 1-2 years, so it doesn't make sense to put a lot of money there. If you'd like an example, go back about three years in the Source Forum. See how many of the "popular" DACs are still being talked about today. Amps go through trends, as well, but the fundamentals haven't changed in years. There might be a new chipset out in 18 months that will make today's best DAC obsolete. That just isn't going to happen with amps. Some of the very best sound comes from 1930s technology.

You should always drop cash on the stable components, like headphones, amps, speakers, and turntables. Technology moves a lot slower there, though I'm sure the marketers would scream me down for saying that. But it's true. You can put together a classic turntable with a McIntosh Amp and ESL-57s and get a sound not far from today's high end.

Also, you have many more opportunities to scrounge parts for an amp. If you read up on transformers, you'll see that you can reuse ones from old TV sets, test gear, or any number of sources. I'm sure your father will know where to go. There might even be a supply closet full of cast off goodies where he works. I think you're in the UK, right? You might want to check with the RSGB (Radio Society of Great Britain) to see if they have any Hamfests/swapmeets in your area. A little money and a little haggling should get you plenty of transformers and valves.

Play your cards right and you can put together the equivalent of a $2,000-$3,000 amp with your budget along with some time and effort. It is my opinion that most sources are underrated. If you already have good headphones, you'll get better sound with a $50 DVD player and a good amp than you will with an expensive source and a cheap amp. If the amp isn't going to put your headphones in their best light, you're never going to hear the benefits of your source. That might seem like a chicken/egg problem, except for the fact that you get pretty good sound from cheap digital sources. There used to be a wide difference between sources, but no so much today.

 

[Enthusia]

I think they both go hand in hand, so you shouldn't skimp out on either, but that's just my opinion.

 

[fordgtlover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyb213 /img/forum/go_quote.gif it is a good bang for the buck but it won't be as polished and may not have the sq of a company built amp/dac

basis?

 

[G-man]

hmm, i was thinking more for the diy, but still i will look into those. i believe i will still be going with a bijou, i have had some experience building a speaker amplifier, though not a tube one, so that might help. also, i will be building a mini^3, and i have heard tube/ss amps, and i prefer a tube sound. i love my mids. still, thanks for the input, and i will definately go with my original idea then, and upgrade my DAC a few years down the line. i would rather not spend too much on these, as believe that the difference between the 400 and 4000 pound set-up is not oirth the money, especially for a student. but still, thanks for all the help.

Gautam