Amp/Dac recommendation

[pcprincipal]

Hey all

Hope to get some recommendations as to which DAC/AMP would suit my current home theater setup.

I mainly use headphones to watch movies and play console games (both on Xbox One X and PS4 Pro).

I had an old Sony amp that I sold along with all speakers and decided not to upgrade as I really couldn't use a proper sound system anyway. I usually game late at night and can't wake up the wife and kids when I do so... So I decided instead to focus on good headphones and just get a soundbar for regular TV viewing (connected to my OneConnect using HDMI ARC)
I have both Sennheiser HD518 and a Lucidsound LS40. The HD518 are getting old and the LS40's build quality is just terrible. The headband broke (something that happened to lots of owners) and I am getting more and more issues with sound in general.
So I took the plunge and just bought some DT770 Pro 80ohms on Amazon.

My next purchase would be a good DAC/AMP to both complement the DT770 and my current setup.

I don't play multiplayer games much so I don't really care about the mic, so no modmic for now. What matters to me, is sound quality and something that would allow using both consoles, a media player that I have, AND the TV itself (Netflix app) without switching inputs too much.

I have a Samsung KS9500 with a OneConnect box. So I am assuming the easiest way to do this would be to connect the OneConnect to the DAC/AMP using optical?

This is all uncharted territory for me so I would appreciate all the help I can get on the above!
From all the articles I read, and other posts on this website, I short-listed so far the Sound Blaster X7 and Mayflower Arc as potential candidates. Do you have other recommendations? Perhaps a bit cheaper, even though I can stretch my budget to include the X7 and ARC...

Thank you in advance!

 

[Stillhart]

Honestly, if you're just using it for TV/games and not doing any virtual surround processing while gaming, you don't need a nice DAC. You can run analogue to your amp and skip the DAC, which would ease the budget and give you a lot more options.

 

[pcprincipal]

Honestly, if you're just using it for TV/games and not doing any virtual surround processing while gaming, you don't need a nice DAC. You can run analogue to your amp and skip the DAC, which would ease the budget and give you a lot more options.

Well I don't have any amp right now. As I said, I sold the one I have and am only using a Soundbar for regular TV viewing.
I use the LS40 for gaming which has a form of surround sound processing using a dongle connected to my consoles using both USB and optical. Pretty good when it works but as I said, the build quality was bad and sound has issues now.

So I am looking for a good headphone amp/DAC combo. Initially I thought about getting a new amplifier (Onkyo or others) but read that if I am planning to use it solely for headphones, then a real headphone amp would make more sense.

So my main requirement is that the device should have an optical input as I am planning to link my OneConnect box to it using optical, and hopefully manage to get the output the my headphones from any device connected to the OneConnect.
If there is a device that manages to do do virtual surround, then it's even better. But I am worried that only applies if I connect the device to a PC. In any case, even with my trusty HD518, I was getting some amazing sound through my old amp so I am pretty sure, "surround sound" on a headphone is just a gimmick. A good audiophile headphone with decent soundstage beats any "gaming" headset in all categories.

With that said, can you recommend the best device that I could look into ? If the two that I already mentioned are the best, which one should I focus on? The sound blaster seems a tad too expensive and I might not need all the features it offers. Plus, the Mayflower seems a bit more sturdy and less gimmicky...

Thanks again for the advice!

 

[Stillhart]

I'm not familiar with the Mayflower, so I can't really say. I've heard good things about the X7 though I've never had a chance to demo it personally. I have a Creative Omni that I use for PC gaming and I really like their surround processing. I wouldn't call it a gimmick, but how well it images for you really depends on how much their generic algorithm matches your unique body/ear shape, etc (HRTF).

Other than that, you might look into something like a Schiit Modi DAC (one of the models has optical) and Magni amp. That's a solid pair that it's hard to go wrong with.

 

[pcprincipal]

I'm not familiar with the Mayflower, so I can't really say. I've heard good things about the X7 though I've never had a chance to demo it personally. I have a Creative Omni that I use for PC gaming and I really like their surround processing. I wouldn't call it a gimmick, but how well it images for you really depends on how much their generic algorithm matches your unique body/ear shape, etc (HRTF).

Other than that, you might look into something like a Schiit Modi DAC (one of the models has optical) and Magni amp. That's a solid pair that it's hard to go wrong with.

Yeah I had read lots of good things about Shiit devices but it's going to cost me a small fortune in shipping and customs to get these. Can't find them anywhere other than the Shiit website...

Can you just let me know if sound quality would be affected if I connect my OneConnect box straight to the DAC? Is it better to connect each console directly to the DAC?

 

[Stillhart]

As long as it's digital to digital, there shouldn't be any noticeable SQ issues unless it's REALLY poorly made.

 

[pcprincipal]

Well I took the plunge and ordered separate DAC and AMP as reading lots of reviews/opinions convinced me it was the right thing to do. That way, I'll be able to upgrade each device separately.

As I said, the Shiit were difficult to find online and getting them from the Shiit website was just too expensive.

I settled for the SMSL Sanskrit 6th DAC and SMSL SAPII Amp. Got them for a good price on Amazon. I think they'll do the job for what I need. They have decent reviews on many websites and I can always upgrade eventually ...

I still hope someone can answer my question as to what would be the best way to connect all my devices together. I know I'll just need to experiment a bit, but I'd still like some of the gurus here to give me some advice
As I mentioned previously, the first thing I am planning to try is to just connect my OneConnect box to the DAC using an Optical cable, the DAC using RSA cables to the Amp. My consoles and media player are connected to the OneConnect using HDMI cables. Would I lose any audio quality that way ? I really don't want to keep switching the optical cable from one console to the other... Now that I think of it, I guess I have a TOSLINK switch lying around somewhere so I might be able to use that...


EDIT: You replied before I had a chance to post this. What do you mean digital to digital ? My consoles will be connected using HDMI to the OneConnect box, which in turn will be connected using Optical to the DAC. Will the HDMI cause any loss in quality ?

 

[Stillhart]

Passing a digital signal from one interface to another shouldn't cause any loss in fidelity unless there's like... weird EMI inside the case or something. HDMI is digital and so is Optical so I wouldn't worry about it. You will probably have to force your output to 2ch though instead of 5.1 or 7.1 or whatever.

 

[pcprincipal]

Passing a digital signal from one interface to another shouldn't cause any loss in fidelity unless there's like... weird EMI inside the case or something. HDMI is digital and so is Optical so I wouldn't worry about it. You will probably have to force your output to 2ch though instead of 5.1 or 7.1 or whatever.

Mission accomplished... Received the headphone and Amp/DAC yesterday.

I proceeded as planned, by connecting my OneConnect box to the DAC via optical. I had to change the sound output to PCM as otherwise all I was getting was "white noise".
I tried listening to music off Youtube (don't shoot me, I know it's far from an ideal test...) and watching some videos on Netflix. So far so good! Sound is amazing.

Finally, I did some gaming on the PS4 as well. This part I need to experiment further as even though sound, music and voices were all ace, I have a feeling the virtual surround effect is leagues behind what I used to get with my "7.1" DTS Headphone X Lucid sound LS40... While playing I got the feeling I couldn't position the sources of sounds around me. I am going to have to research this further and maybe connect the PS4 straight to the DAC using either USB or HDMI.
I also read people tend to buy gaming DAC/AMps for this purpose, like a mixamp or DSS. Do you recommend I invest in this as well? Will it help with the virtual surround effect? And if possible, could you recommend one that is compatible with the Xbox and PS4 ?

All in all, I am very happy with my purchase! Getting some high quality optical and RSA cables soon as the ones I had lying around are crap.

 

[Stillhart]

So your DTS Headphone X thing *is* a virtual surround DAC/Amp like a mixamp or DSS. That's why you're getting worse positioning, because you're back to stereo. It's not the connection or whatever.

Personally, I use a DSS2 on my PS4. It's 1/10th the price of a Creative X7 and it has a very quiet amp so it double amps well. It also has a USB passthrough so you can plug in a USB mic instead of an analogue one. Then I just go from the 1/8" headphone out of the DSS to RCA into my amp and I have virtual surround with not too much loss of fidelity. I think I got the DSS2 with a crappy headphone that I literally gave away for about $20 total (random sale at Newegg or something).

For Xbox, you are boned because you can't use the USB for a mic so you need an analogue mic into the controller. I have an old Mixamp wireless I use for that and it's a terrible amp, super hissy so double amping is even worse. But I sit across a big living room from the Xbox so the wireless is worth it to me.

I know it's a lot to take in but yeah. You might try posting in the Mad Lust Envy gaming headphone thread. Lots of dudes there with all kinds of different setups. They helped me a lot back when I was getting started.

 

[pcprincipal]

Would a Sound BlasterX G5 be a decent option? And if I were to go for a TurtleBeach product, does it make sense to go for the DSS2 when the TAC Pro is the "newer" product?

 

[Stillhart]

I don't have much experience with the G5. I have an Omni on my PC, which uses the same virtual surround codec, and I love it. From what I've heard and read about the G5, it's a capable device, though last I checked it was waiting for a much needed software patch to fix some major oversight. @Evshrug probably has more up to date info on that in a thread somewhere.

I have no experience with the TAC. Last I checked it used DTSHX, which is a superior codec to the one in the DSS2. But last I checked it was $200+ so up to you whether that's worth 10x the cost. I have no idea if it has a USB passthough or if it's a quiet device for double amping.

Another one to consider is the new Sennheiser GSXR series (or something like that). Evs can definitely help with that.

 

[pcprincipal]

I don't have much experience with the G5. I have an Omni on my PC, which uses the same virtual surround codec, and I love it. From what I've heard and read about the G5, it's a capable device, though last I checked it was waiting for a much needed software patch to fix some major oversight. @Evshrug probably has more up to date info on that in a thread somewhere.

I have no experience with the TAC. Last I checked it used DTSHX, which is a superior codec to the one in the DSS2. But last I checked it was $200+ so up to you whether that's worth 10x the cost. I have no idea if it has a USB passthough or if it's a quiet device for double amping.

Another one to consider is the new Sennheiser GSXR series (or something like that). Evs can definitely help with that.

I finally decided to get the DSS2 which I got for a ridiculously low price on Amazon UK. Very good sound quality, finally getting proper surround on my headphones.
So all in all very happy with my purchases, managed to get the headphone, DAC & AMP + the DSS2 for an ok price which didn't break the bank! I can now save some $$$ for my gaming laptop upgrade which should happen around the end of the year, when Nvidia hopefully releases the successor to the GTX 1080.... It's about time I retire my Alienware 17 (2013)...

 

[Stillhart]

Congrats, gald we could help!