[skwoodwiva]

something very Hannibal Lecter about this

So you have no guess?

 

[azabu]

skwoodwiva said: ↑
But the one type of silver on one channel vs pure on the other should not have caused harshness to be one one side of the room...

amirm's response:
Unfortunately you can be convinced that is the case even if the sound has not changed. Next time you perform this type of test have a loved one switch the cables, or not every day. Have them keep a log and you do the same as to whether you think there is a silver cable or not. At the end of the seven days, see what percentage you got right. In other words, make the test blind so that your perception of what is what does not impact the test outcome.

To motivate your loved one and you to do the test, I will offer you $50 Amazon gift card to perform the test. Doesn't matter what the outcome is. You will get the $50. Just post the two logs when you are done and I will send you the gift card. Deal?
Founder, Audio Science Review

Basic plan:
Great idea, but I have an easier one.
I was going to make a nice cable for my Sony cans. So I make 3.
1)Kimber, OFC, TFE jacket, 19 ga
2)plated silver on 1 channel & Kimber the other.
3) the Opposite-redundent not used.
I could ID them by marks on plug shaft.

The cables should be ready in a day or two.

The test equipment is ready
https://www.head-fi.org/posts/14140532/


Does anyone have advice on a better way to Eq my phones than just playing a test record? Mine is not very good anyway.
Would anybody post a many band test record?
Ahh, a resource, an Audiophile of a high stature!
https://www.head-fi.org/posts/14142737/

I ask all commers to try his online blind test, not the AB testing. You cannot AB well unless you love the source music. The db, pitch, level discernment one.
.5 db, 10c, 12k (sad 61 now, oh well), 2 ms & 65 db dynamic range.
Report here no need for a zillion runs I will believe you.

"
@edgeworth
Head-Fier
Joined: Jan 18, 2014
Posts: 75
Likes: 18
Can someone point me to any recent studies that have followed up very old AT&T work on training people to hear differences?

I vaguely remember an old AT&T or Bell Labs study showing that people who could not identify a low frequency tone mixed in with noise were able to reliable identify the sound after it had been shown to them in non-blind conditions first?

Also I wonder if audio engineers have databases that allow meta-studies of their work?

I'm thinking that in this age of big data that the potential for discovering subtle but persistent effects is there.

I'm minded of this when looking at the new biology studies of genes and intelligence. Many small scale studies could not find effects that were significant but when combined with other studies people have managed to publish studies (usually with enormous sample sizes on the order 500k or 1M participants) showing clear links between certain genes and a) educational attainment and b) IQ in serious bio journals.

I rememberonce looking at a large cable test that seemed to show negative results but when I looked through the data it was clear that a subset of listeners could -- at statistically significant levels -- tell which cable was which. There was no followup nor paper on this and the people doing the test didn't respond to queries from me. But I haven't seen many studies that are large enough and recombinable enough to allow one to use the most sophisticated stats to ferret out subset effects. I am not an audio engineer though I work with large scale statistical data. So I'd appreciate it if an expert could give me some references.

Thanks.
"

Ehh, Ni!

I can hear the difference between wires without issue. Tone, spatial placement, decay etc.

They're your ears and that's all that matters.

 

[skwoodwiva]

To all skeptics, when I am ready I will post good clear pictures of two dentically looking cables, covered in black foam tape. This is elementary. I will even add a 4th wire to ths TC3 so they will weigh th same.
The file cut in one tip may be usefull at times, but not necessary. I will put some slippery tape on the soldered tipped end's plug body over th foam, if I do make the cut. This is the end that plugges into the phones. The phones have the orignal proprietary jack replaced with a true 3.5 mm one.
I want a true blind test as much as anyone here, more so. I have thought of everything.

Critics: be verbose right NOW. Yet you all are vague in all your jabs. Jellyfish...
I do not take any criticism as serious because of this, Amirim's excluded.

 

[colonelkernel8]

I can hear the difference between wires without issue. Tone, spatial placement, decay etc.

They're your ears and that's all that matters.

No you can’t. Period. But hey, keep putting kids through school with your ill-spent cash on snake oil wires.

Edit: to put it another way, here in sound science, prove it. Prove that you can distinguish wires “without issue”. Double blind test. I’ll bet you $1000 right here without blinking you wouldn’t do better than a guess at a statistically significant number of trials in an actual double blind test.

 

[skwoodwiva]

I made the TC 3 first because of the fatter plated 18 ga wire. Then the reference. With one of the most sensitive cans there are I see no need but to just add a 4th 19 gauge wire under the foam, a dummy only to make them weigh the same.

 

[colonelkernel8]

To all skeptics, when I am ready I will post good clear pictures of two dentically looking cables, covered in black foam tape. This is elementary. I will even add a 4th wire to ths TC3 so they will weigh th same.
The file cut in one tip may be usefull at times, but not necessary. I will put some slippery tape on the soldered tipped end's plug body over th foam, if I do make the cut. This is the end that plugges into the phones. The phones have the orignal proprietary jack replaced with a true 3.5 mm one.
I want a true blind test as much as anyone here, more so. I have thought of everything.

Critics: be verbose right NOW. Yet you all are vague in all you jabs.
I do not take any criticism as serious because of this, Amirim's excluded.

We have not been ambiguous. If I ran an audio signal through two different material wires of the same length into a difference amplifier and measured the results on an oscilloscope, I’d be looking at a flat line. You are a *liar* if you believe there is something I am missing by measuring with the oscilloscope, we are dealing with a signal in a wire, there is nothing else to measure. The laws of physics do not suspend themselves for your hearing enjoyment, no matter how much you spend.

That said, it’s literally, and I do mean literally, impossible to perform a double blind test of cables by yourself. So your results will be effectively pointless. My guess is that you’ll either subconsciously know or remember which cable is which (you have to label them in some way, right?) and get perfect results, or you’ll juice the numbers after the fact to give you like an 80% true-positive result.

 

[skwoodwiva]

I can hear the difference between wires without issue. Tone, spatial placement, decay etc.

They're your ears and that's all that matters.

Yes I read much of this by members who do not even venture in the SS section due to the "troll like" dogmatism that pervades it.

 

[colonelkernel8]

Yes I read much of this by members who do not even venture in the SS section due to the "troll like" dogmatism that pervades it.

lol. What a crock of horseshit. “Troll like dogmatism” in a forum about objective testing. Of course we seem “troll like” when you “trust your ears” as reasonable measurement devices.

 

[skwoodwiva]

News
I just qualified as a reviewer for the
Questyle QP2R Loaner Program.
So that will play a role as I wind all this up.
Herring!

 

[skwoodwiva]

something very Hannibal Lecter about this

So you need a hint, here is 1st.

 

[colonelkernel8]

Holding toilet paper for performing your necessaries?

 

[bfreedma]

To all skeptics, when I am ready I will post good clear pictures of two dentically looking cables, covered in black foam tape. This is elementary. I will even add a 4th wire to ths TC3 so they will weigh th same.
The file cut in one tip may be usefull at times, but not necessary. I will put some slippery tape on the soldered tipped end's plug body over th foam, if I do make the cut. This is the end that plugges into the phones. The phones have the orignal proprietary jack replaced with a true 3.5 mm one.
I want a true blind test as much as anyone here, more so. I have thought of everything.

Critics: be verbose right NOW. Yet you all are vague in all your jabs. Jellyfish...
I do not take any criticism as serious because of this, Amirim's excluded.

If you want even a slight chance of having your results considered, let alone taken seriously, you need to have a second person switch the cables. There is no alternative to this if you want this test to be considered “blind” rather than sighted or biased. The cable switching must be done out of your sight on both the headphone (or speakers) and your amplifier. There is no alternative to that either. While you are testing, the second person should not be visible to you to prevent unintended cues.

You’re also going to have to perform enough tests to avoid the risk of small sample size skewing your results via lucky (or poor) guessing. 10 sets of ten tests at minimum. More would be better.

The order of the cable swapping should be randomly generated prior to your testing and include the possibility of repeating the same cable in consecutive tests.

 

[skwoodwiva]

If you want even a slight chance of having your results considered, let alone taken seriously, you need to have a second person switch the cables. There is no alternative to this if you want this test to be considered “blind” rather than sighted or biased. The cable switching must be done out of your sight on both the headphone (or speakers) and your amplifier. There is no alternative to that either. While you are testing, the second person should not be visible to you to prevent unintended cues.

You’re also going to have to perform enough tests to avoid the risk of small sample size skewing your results via lucky (or poor) guessing. 10 sets of ten tests at minimum. More would be better.

The order of the cable swapping should be randomly generated prior to your testing and include the possibility of repeating the same cable in consecutive tests.

I missjudged you previously
No sting...

 

[bfreedma]

I missjudged you previously
No sting...

Don’t be so sure - we haven’t gotten to analyzing your results yet

I think it’s only fair to provide some basic guidance so that you at least have a chance to perform a test where the results can be debated rather than a flawed testing methodology. That said, there are probably another dozen or more controls that would need to be in place to assure that the results you generate aren’t due to intended or unintended outside influences - the previous post at least provides a basic framework.

Something to consider: a lot of the people who you probably feel are being negative towards you have been down this road many times with other posters who claimed they could identify cables in a blind test scenario before. To date, the results have fit into three categories:

1. The testing confirmed that in a properly conducted blind test, correctly constructed cables were indistinguishable
2. The testing methodology was fatally flawed and the the results were not supportable
3. The tester was caught cheating.

Given the list above, you may better understand the skepticism of your claims by many long term contributors to the Sound Science forum.

 

[skwoodwiva]

Don’t be so sure - we haven’t gotten to analyzing your results yet

I think it’s only fair to provide some basic guidance so that you at least have a chance to perform a test where the results can be debated rather than a flawed testing methodology. That said, there are probably another dozen or more controls that would need to be in place to assure that the results you generate aren’t due to intended or unintended outside influences - the previous post at least provides a basic framework.

Something to consider: a lot of the people who you probably feel are being negative towards you have been down this road many times with other posters who claimed they could identify cables in a blind test scenario before. To date, the results have fit into three categories:

1. The testing confirmed that in a properly conducted blind test, correctly constructed cables were indistinguishable
2. The testing methodology was fatally flawed and the the results were not supportable
3. The tester was caught cheating.

Given the list above, you may better understand the skepticism of your claims by many long term contributors to the Sound Science forum.

Thank you
Let your post be be a milestone in my thread.
Let all heed your cautions and listen to my commitment to make the testing such that it will be acceptable to all.
Anymore blind assuming on any critic's part will be dismissed out of hand. And reported as abuse.