[Tubewin]

Maybe I'm wrong, but comparing Amazon (FLAC streaming) to a download AIFF formatted file might not be an "apples to apples" (pun intended) comparison. AIFF, while lossless, might not be the same bitrate and might not have been from the same master / mix of the music. There's many aspects that go into the quality of music, and comparison of sources can be tricky at best.

I thought by going AIFF (uncompressed) was giving Qobuz and Audirvana an advantage. You're saying by purchasing and listening through AIFF format it would sound worse? I've also downloaded and listened to them through flac and it wasn't any better. AIFF is a mastering format...

 

[GlenAppleton]

I thought by going AIFF (uncompressed) was giving Qobuz and Audirvana an advantage. You're saying by purchasing and listening through AIFF format it would sound worse? I've also downloaded and listened to them through flac and it wasn't any better. AIFF is a mastering format...

Better / worse are subjective to the ear of the listener. I'm saying that playback of each format can possibly change tonal qualities of the music, as can the source from which each was created (master / mix of the track).

 

[Tubewin]

Better / worse are subjective to the ear of the listener. I'm saying that playback of each format can possibly change tonal qualities of the music, as can the source from which each was created (master / mix of the track).

Of course it's subjective, but in theory AIFF is superior to FLAC because it is uncompressed and of master quality. I have also listened straight from Qobuz and it sounds worse than AIFF. It's all subjective. I understand that. But again, subjectively, Amazon sounds better.

 

[DeweyCH]

I'd appreciate it if you could be specific about how you configured the apps.

Since Tidal apparently MQAs all the things, including 16/44.1 material, there's certainly a good chance that it sounds different across the board. Qobuz and Amazon Music HD on the other hand both serve straight up FLAC files, lossless compression without any proprietary shenanigans on top (to my knowledge).

But they differ in an important way: For Qobuz, both the Mac app, as well as the Windows app (when used in exclusive mode), actually set the sample rate of the audio output device correctly, i.e. based on the current track. The Amazon Music apps, even though exclusive mode is supported on Windows, don't set the sample rate, so as soon as you listen to tracks with a variety of sample rates, you're guaranteed to have the OS resample the data before it gets sent to the DAC, adding a variable to the mix that Tidal and Qobuz can avoid (if set up correctly). In addition, both apps have their own volume dial, and exclusive mode bypasses the OS level volume setting on Windows, so if you set Windows to 90% volume and use exclusive mode in Qobuz, yeah, it'll be louder.

And then there's the "Loudness Normalization" setting in the Amazon Music app, which Qobuz doesn't seem to have. Even if the app volume and system volume are maxed out, this could result in the Amazon Music app reducing the volume of a loud track based on some average volume in order to make it roughly as loud as other tracks that have a higher dynamic range - another reason why Qobuz could sound louder.

For Amazon Music, unless you want to set the sample rate manually to what the track needs, 24/192 is the best setting so that the app actually selects the highest quality version of the file. Qobuz will adjust the sample rate as needed when exclusive mode is used, which won't be visible in Windows unless there's a device specific driver tool (like for iFi devices). Hopefully the DAC has a sample rate indicator to confirm.
Enhancements and Spatial sound should be disabled (exclusive mode will bypass those). Exclusive mode should be allowed, of course.



The OS level volume should be maxed out.



Qobuz should be set to use exclusive mode and the quality should be set to up to 24/192. The Qobuz app should be set to 100% volume.



The Amazon Music app should be set to HD/Ultra HD quality, loudness normalization off, exclusive mode allowed.

Separately, you need to set the output device and tell Amazon to actually use exclusive mode. You might have to do that every time you start the app.



To confirm that things check out, click on the quality icon. On the left I played Beck - The Golden Age, a 96 kHz track that Windows will upsample to 192 kHz before the DAC sees it. On the right, I played Beck - Paper Tiger, a 192 kHz that should not get upsampled with the settings I have.



Apologies if you have made all of these adjustments, but I think this is important when trying to get the most out of whatever streaming service you use, and especially when comparing them.

Question on this... I've got my setup the way you describe, and within the Amazon Music app the quality icon interface shows what you showed for those two tracks. However, my DAC (SMSL SU-8) always displays 192k. Is this Windows upsampling to its default quality? Would this be what you describe when you say you'd have to manually change the sound settings in Windows on tracks with different sample rates?

 

[GlenAppleton]

Of course it's subjective, but in theory AIFF is superior to FLAC because it is uncompressed and of master quality. I have also listened straight from Qobuz and it sounds worse than AIFF. It's all subjective. I understand that. But again, subjectively, Amazon sounds better.

I guess a better example of source material would be my experience with both Amazon and Qobuz tracks from different mixes. I did a trial for 3 weeks with the Amazon HD service, and I found several albums that were remixed / remastered, and while some of the collections (albums) sounded amazing, others sounded overly compressed. Same music, different mix / master.

Now, I use Qobuz exclusively, and I've run into a similar pattern where in some cases the Hi-Res (24/96 - 24/192) don't sound as good as the standard CD (16/44.1) version of the same track.

Ultimately, to say one service / software is better for music you would probably need to use the same master+mix+format+bitrate+depth source through both. It would then be equivalent to playing the same physical media on different gear for a comparison. Otherwise, many variables to consider.

 

[Tubewin]

Question on this... I've got my setup the way you describe, and within the Amazon Music app the quality icon interface shows what you showed for those two tracks. However, my DAC (SMSL SU-8) always displays 192k. Is this Windows upsampling to its default quality? Would this be what you describe when you say you'd have to manually change the sound settings in Windows on tracks with different sample rates?

Amazon does not do bit perfect streaming. Their exclusive mode still doesn't work.

 

[GlenAppleton]

Question on this... I've got my setup the way you describe, and within the Amazon Music app the quality icon interface shows what you showed for those two tracks. However, my DAC (SMSL SU-8) always displays 192k. Is this Windows upsampling to its default quality? Would this be what you describe when you say you'd have to manually change the sound settings in Windows on tracks with different sample rates?

FYI: The Amazon music app doesn't bypass the Windows sound processing layer, so yes, Windows is up-sampling and adding EQ when using the Amazon Music app.

 

[DeweyCH]

Amazon does not do bit perfect streaming. Their exclusive mode still doesn't work.

Then what does their exclusive mode do? I've gone back and forth here a while back with people about whether it actually does anything, but it sounds dramatically better in Exclusive Mode than not.

 

[Alcophone]

Question on this... I've got my setup the way you describe, and within the Amazon Music app the quality icon interface shows what you showed for those two tracks. However, my DAC (SMSL SU-8) always displays 192k. Is this Windows upsampling to its default quality? Would this be what you describe when you say you'd have to manually change the sound settings in Windows on tracks with different sample rates?

Correct. Now I don't know for sure whether the Amazon Music app is upsampling everything to 192 kHz or whether Windows does, but something is before it hits the DAC.

FYI: The Amazon music app doesn't bypass the Windows sound processing layer, so yes, Windows is up-sampling and adding EQ when using the Amazon Music app.

Exclusive mode should still bypass EQ and have the advantage that Windows has no need to lower the volume to allow some headroom for mixing audio from multiple apps. It may well be bit perfect if the track happens to have the same sample rate as what the DAC is set to. I have to verify this, very curious about it.

 

[Tubewin]

Then what does their exclusive mode do? I've gone back and forth here a while back with people about whether it actually does anything, but it sounds dramatically better in Exclusive Mode than not.

To be honest, I do prefer the non-exclusive mode. But to answer your question, I'm not sure what it does. Exclusive mode is meant to bypass Windows processing, but the bit rate doesn't change from track to track. So it definitely is not working as intended.

 

[GlenAppleton]

Regarding the exclusive mode, from the Amazon Music HD FAQs:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ama...sless-streaming.905493/page-116#post-16610510

What is exclusive mode?​

When exclusive mode is enabled, the Amazon Music app will block sounds from other applications while music is playing. This provides a number of sound quality benefits, notably that it allows the Amazon Music app to play music in the highest possible quality supported by your playback device. It also reduces the likelihood of playback errors that can occur when multiple applications are playing audio at the same time. It is important to note that other applications will not be able to play audio when a song is playing while exclusive mode is enabled.

 

[GlenAppleton]

Correct. Now I don't know for sure whether the Amazon Music app is upsampling everything to 192 kHz or whether Windows does, but something is before it hits the DAC.


Exclusive mode should still bypass EQ and have the advantage that Windows has no need to lower the volume to allow some headroom for mixing audio from multiple apps. It may well be bit perfect if the track happens to have the same sample rate as what the DAC is set to. I have to verify this, very curious about it.

See my previous post with the text from the Amazon FAQs. There is not information saying that it does anything but lock the device, preventing other software from using it during playback of the music. So, you might be correct, but that wasn't my experience when I was using it a while back (it didn't bypass my EQ panel settings). Maybe it has changed in the last couple of months.

 

[Alcophone]

See my previous post with the text from the Amazon FAQs. There is not information saying that it does anything but lock the device, preventing other software from using it during playback of the music. So, you might be correct, but that wasn't my experience when I was using it a while back (it didn't bypass my EQ panel settings). Maybe it has changed in the last couple of months.

What is the EQ panel you are referring to? Do you mean the Enhancements panel in the Windows sound settings?

I just tried the Bass Boost setting with an 18 dB boost at 600 Hz:

This sounds muffled (exclusive mode off):

This does not (exclusive mode on):

 

[Tubewin]

What is the EQ panel you are referring to? Do you mean the Enhancements panel in the Windows sound settings?

I just tried the Bass Boost setting with an 18 dB boost at 600 Hz:





This sounds muffled (exclusive mode off):



This does not (exclusive mode on):

Interesting, thank you for that. So it does bypass some aspects of windows processing.

 

[GlenAppleton]

What is the EQ panel you are referring to? Do you mean the Enhancements panel in the Windows sound settings?

I just tried the Bass Boost setting with an 18 dB boost at 600 Hz:





This sounds muffled (exclusive mode off):



This does not (exclusive mode on):

Actually, I was talking about an HP sound utility that came with my computer, so maybe my situation is different.