Am I taking a chance on a "refurbished" Amperior????
Jan 5, 2013 at 5:01 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 43

listenCarefully

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I just picked up the Sennheiser Momentums because they were on sale for $300 (a rare occurrence in Canada). They are very pleasant but since everyone seemed to compare them to the Amperiors I picked up a pair of those as well (to AB with the Momentums). After extensive listening  there is simply no way to get around  the fact that the Amperiors are significantly better. They almost give me reference quality sound out of my iPhone (CD lossless files of course). That said, I've GOT to have the  Amperior's but can't find them anywhere for less than $350 (which, without a case, makes them MUCH more expensive than the Momentums). I found the Amperiors for $200 (refurbished) and was wondering if anyone has an opinion on whether I'm taking a risk with a refurbished headphone. The answer might seem obvious but some refurbished products (like Apple) may actually be a better bet (in terms of quality control) since you know they have been fully checked out and vetted. Any thoughts????
 
Jan 5, 2013 at 5:25 PM Post #3 of 43

listenCarefully

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DAHMART on Amazon. I don't know how I can find out if they are an authorized dealer. 
 
Jan 5, 2013 at 5:47 PM Post #4 of 43

listenCarefully

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Addendum:
Did a little research and found out that DAHMART is Dale Pro Audio which used to be Dale Electronics which IS an authorized dealer. 
So...
Is it pretty safe getting a refurb from an authorized dealer?
 
Jan 6, 2013 at 2:17 PM Post #6 of 43

Drum747

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I just bought the Amperior from VMinnovations for $167.00 factory refurbished and tbey are an authorised dealer. I found a coupon code brads13 that brought the price down to $159.59 with free shipping. I could not turn them down at that price. My experience with refurbs has been great as long as they are factory refurbished. They come with a 90 day warrranty.

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Jan 6, 2013 at 10:07 PM Post #7 of 43

audioKyle

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I'm also planning to buy some amperiors! Is it better to buy refurbished or used? And does the full warranty come with them? I'm guessing not unless I buy new. :frowning2:
 
Jan 7, 2013 at 2:28 AM Post #8 of 43

listenCarefully

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Quote:
I just bought the Amperior from VMinnovations for $167.00 factory refurbished and tbey are an authorised dealer. I found a coupon code brads13 that brought the price down to $159.59 with free shipping. I could not turn them down at that price. My experience with refurbs has been great as long as they are factory refurbished. They come with a 90 day warrranty.
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Thanx for letting me know dude, I snagged pair too. For $160 it's really a no brainer.  
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Jan 7, 2013 at 2:57 AM Post #9 of 43

ilikedonkeys39

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get them refurbished, its from amazon and it wil be fine, if something goes wrong just send them back, i got my m80s used from an audiophile on amazon and they work perfect
 
Jan 7, 2013 at 7:09 AM Post #10 of 43

depaulhifi

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Quote:
I'm also planning to buy some amperiors! Is it better to buy refurbished or used? And does the full warranty come with them? I'm guessing not unless I buy new.
frown.gif


Factory refurbs come with a 90 day warranty.  You pretty much can't go wrong given that every part on the HD25/Amperior can be replaced.  I'm about to pull the trigger on a refurb'd Amperior in blue.  
 
I was sold when I read that their signature is very much like the Shure SE215, which is my current daily driver. 
 
Jan 7, 2013 at 10:23 AM Post #11 of 43

Drum747

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2 Thanx for letting me know dude, I snagged pair too. For $160 it's really a no brainer.  
biggrin.gif

[/quote]

Glad it worked out! 160 is hard to beat! Enjoy!

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Jan 8, 2013 at 12:36 AM Post #12 of 43

listenCarefully

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Quote:
 
....I was sold when I read that their signature is very much like the Shure SE215, which is my current daily driver. 

Can I ask where you read a review comparing the 215 to the Amperior? The reason I'm getting the Amperior is because nothing I've heard conveys rhythmic nuance the way they do (particularly not any IEMs I've ever heard).
 
Jan 10, 2013 at 4:52 AM Post #13 of 43

AtomicWalrus

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Thanks for pointing this out, I'd only seen the $200 refurbs on Amazon. I returned them after buying at $350, but for $160 I couldn't pass up owning a pair.
 
In fact mine arrived today. They look (and more importantly sound) as good as new. I can't be certain but I think the pads have been replaced; there wasn't a single visible bit of dirt on any of them, and I know from my original pair that the velour pads pick up bits of carpet fuzz/lint/dust almost instantly. The headphones were in a bubble wrap bag which was in a larger clear plastic bag stapled closed with a bit of folded cardboard that had "Sennheiser Factory Refurbished" printed on it. There's also a piece of paper describing the 90 day Sennheiser warranty. Might be worth mentioning that this warranty slip very specifically states that they don't cover "physical damage" which I assume refers to cosmetic damage (scratches or whatever). In other words to get a replacement from Sennheiser it would have to be functionally impaired, not just scratched up.
 
I'm not that concerned about the short warranty; most faulty electronic devices will fail fairly quickly if they're going to, and like the original HD 25 you can literally rebuild these from parts if anything goes wrong. My only complaint is that VM Innovations really didn't add anything to the packaging for the safety of the headphones. This packaging I described was just shipped in an unpadded plastic mailing bag. The Amperior is pretty sturdy so that might be enough, but I still would have preferred at least a little extra padding in there, even if they'd just stuffed some extra bubble wrap in the bag. An add-on I never see on online stores that I would actually pay for is an upgrade to more durable packaging instead of just faster shipping, but I suppose that would mean admitting you're using shoddy packaging in the first place. I'm off the topic so here they are:
 

 
Bits of lint on the pads are from my use since I received them; they were completely clean when I took them out of the package. I certainly can't know what the other refurb units look like, but for a headphone this new I'd imagine many of them are simple returns where there may have been no actual problem with them. If you'd placed this headphone in a new box I wouldn't have been able to tell that it was used.
 

 
There's a look at the packaging for anyone who might be concerned about their safety during shipping (not shown but there's also a small bag in with the headphones that has the 2 cables and the pamphlets that come in the retail box). On the left is the packaging from Sennheiser (headphones were inside the bubble wrap bag), on the right is the unpadded mailing bag. I think it's probably fairly safe; it likely gets sorted with other bags/envelopes and not so much with boxes, and the Amperior isn't easy to break unless you go after the wires. Just be aware that Sennheiser's warranty probably won't cover shipping damage if there is any. If you ordered something like an HD 650 and it shipped this way I wouldn't be shocked if it had dented grills.
 
Here's a bit with my opinions of the headphone itself (just got them today, but I spent a few weeks with a pair a while back). There's plenty of info on the HD 25 out there which I believe largely applies to the Amperior so I'll keep it short.
 
I really like the sound. It seems very clear and energetic to me. If you're familiar with the HD 650 "veil" people talk about, I would say that the Amperior leans distinctly in the opposite direction (Just as a note I love my 650 too. Not sure how I can like both signatures equally but I do). Many people suggest that the HD 25 variants get a bit harsh towards the top end, but I really don't hear it. They definitely have a sound that doesn't do some recordings any favors, but I still don't really fell it's adding harshness or sibilance that doesn't already exist in the recording. I have found tracks where it does nothing to mask unpleasant artifacts from poor music production (before I really got into audio gear I never would have believed how many artists intentionally mix their music at clipping/distortion levels, it's crazy). As far as the bass I would immediately reach for the word "impact." Bass hits hard and fast in a way that I quite enjoy, but it's never going to match the rumble of bass-focused headphones with larger drivers (say, the M-100).
 
Assuming you understand that you're getting a set of headphones that's going to clamp onto your ears the ergonomics are quite good. Getting the "seal" is easy since the pads are flat with a fairly small hole in the center.  The velour are better than pleather 100% of the time, at least that's my impression. Pleather increases sweating, and sweat on pleather is gross. If you disagree you could swap on some HD 25 pleather pads (they'll likely improve isolation, maybe even give you more sub bass). Clamp isn't too bad, especially after the first week or so as the headband flexes a bit and you get used to the fit, but do expect your ears to be slightly sore if you wear them for hours at a time. From my perspective I'd rather have a bit of soreness than poor sealing or an increased chance of them moving or falling off. YMMV depending on the shape of your ears, but I personally find them less annoying than wearing IEMs, something I'll only be doing when exercising from now on.
 
I have to admit that I missed these headphones after I returned them to Apple. Listening to them right now it's hard to imagine why I decided to get rid of them (I know why, it's that I paid ~$380 after tax). At $160 these are amazing headphones, and they're the only non-IEM portable that's ever worked for me. They isolate fairly well, stay in place well, and you can use them at light to moderate exertion levels without them getting gross. The cheapest you'll find a new pair in the US is at $300 from Razordog Deals which still makes this a $140 discount. Even a new HD 25 is currently going for $200. 
 
Based on my experience I'd say it seems like an excellent deal. This is my first refurbished headphone and I can't be sure that it'll always work out as well, but I have generally seen positive feedback on Sennheiser refurbished purchases. Obviously there's a certain lottery factor involved, as you have no control over how they were treated before being returned. Sennheiser will likely make it right if they outright fail, but they won't help you if the headphones received cosmetic damage before or during shipping (entirely possible considering the packaging) and your options with returns are limited (I believe you can only return them for a replacement refurbished headphone).
 
Jan 10, 2013 at 1:26 PM Post #14 of 43

listenCarefully

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Anyone know if the warranty is different on Amazon? Also, I was under the impression that a refutb is tested and put back to factory spec if it's had any damage. Is this not what Sennheiser does?
 
Jan 10, 2013 at 3:33 PM Post #15 of 43

AtomicWalrus

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Quote:
Anyone know if the warranty is different on Amazon? Also, I was under the impression that a refutb is tested and put back to factory spec if it's had any damage. Is this not what Sennheiser does?

 
If you buy from the seller "Dahmart" on Amazon I think it's been established that this is Dakmart (an authorized dealer). Apparently their name was taken when they made a seller account on Amazon (you could email Dakmart to make sure that's true). That means you should be getting the standard Sennheiser refurbished warranty, which is 90 days. If you really want to be 100% certain you could contact Sennheiser to make sure it would be fully covered, but I'm not sure how quickly they get back about questions like that. When you're buying a Senneheiser product you want to make sure that you end up with a receipt from a legitimate dealer; the documentation in the packaging won't count even if it's all real (in fact the warranty slip specifically mentions that you have to include your purchase receipt from an authorized dealer when you send it in for service).
 
You can get the full dealers list here: http://www.sennheiserusa.com/serviceandsupport_dealer-locator_authorized-retailers (click on the online dealers link). 
 
That is how refurbishing works, however they'll probably not replace parts that have extremely minor cosmetic issues like scratches. As I mentioned in my too-long post about my refurb unit, I'm almost positive that the pads were replaced. I'd guess that's standard for hygiene reasons (likewise IEMs certainly would have to come with a brand new set of tips). They should also go through performance tests not unlike the tests that new production units are put through, however there's no way to know how extensive these are unless you work there.
 

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