[sahmen]

I have just had a really lovely evening listening to music through my main system:

Server > Ethernet > Metrum Ambre > AES > Metrum Adagio > XLR > Metrum Forte > Speakers

Just wonderful.

The components just sound spectacular as a whole, Cees really is an alchemist.

I am looking forward to the release of the Transient 3 DAC modules; I shall definitely be upgrading my Adagio with those.

My main focus at the moment is my headphone system. This consists of:

Auralic Aries Mini > SPDIF Coax > Metrum Musette (Upgraded Transient 2 DAC modules) > RCA > Metrum Aurix > AudioQuest NightHawk Carbon

My current thinking is broadly along the lines of:

1. Replace the Auralic Aries Mini with a Metrum Ambre
2. Replace the Metrum Musette with either: Metrum Onyx, Metrum Pavane or Schiit Audio Yggdrassil
3. Replace the Metrum Aurix. The problem is for what? I like the look of tube HPAs so perhaps one from Feliks Audio (Elise or Euphoria) or the LDA MicroZOTL MZ3

Constructive thoughts on the three points above?

Many Thanks

In the proposed list of DACs in item 2, I'll definitely consider including the Sonnet Audio Morpheus among the options, unless you have an issue with the Sonnet Audio products of Cees, which I'd find difficult to understand. Cees himself strongly recommended the Morpheus to me as an upgrade to my Onyx, and he was right. I shall actually take ti over the Pavane any day, but that is just me.

By the way, nice Speaker rig. I have been intrigued by the Forte for a long time, and wish I could give it a listen,

 

[George Hincapie]

In the proposed list of DACs in item 2, I'll definitely consider including the Sonnet Audio Morpheus among the options, unless you have an issue with the Sonnet Audio products of Cees, which I'd find difficult to understand. Cees himself strongly recommended the Morpheus to me as an upgrade to my Onyx, and he was right. I shall actually take ti over the Pavane any day, but that is just me.

By the way, nice Speaker rig. I have been intrigued by the Forte for a long time, and wish I could give it a listen,

Thank you. The Forte is excellent and I am very happy with it. I would suggest you audition one when conditions allow.

I don't have an issue with the Morpheus from a technical perspective, it looks excellent and I have read great owner feedback about it. I guess it just doesn't appeal from a appearance perspective. Without meaning to cause offence, the case just doesn't appeal to me. Additionally, it's a DAC and pre-amp. The pre-amp is superflous in a headphone system. Did Cees release a Pavane like version at all? A Morpheus without volume control?

I suspect that the new 'Dac 3' modules shortly to be released are the same ones Cees designed for the Sonnet products, on an altered PCB to fit Metrum DACs. A Pavane or Adagio with Transient 3 DAC upgrade should be pretty spectacular to behold.

I will look into the Morpheus more though in the interests of fairness; although as things stand at the moment I feel an upgraded Pavane would appeal more than a Morpheus in my headphone system. But who knows? I may listen to the Morpheus and find it blows my socks off.

There's also the Yggdrasil to consider. It's the flagship DAC from Schiit and is really well regarded. I have always wondered about them.

Finally, I have also wondered about the Chord products. I don't think the Qutest offers anything over what I have, but the Hugo TT2 and MScalar sounds like an interesting (albeit expensive) proposition. But then that's taking me down a road I'm not sure I want to travel. I like the NOS sound for a reason. Difficult in the UK to get a proper home demo of Chord products for some reason and I always feel bad buying something unless I am going to keep it.

Lots to think about, and thanks for your useful comments.

*Edit* I've had a look at a few videos on YT and the Morpheus in all black doesn't look that bad. Perhaps it was the silver ones I saw that jarred.

 

[roncagg]

I can offer some perspective on onyx/yggy as I had the onyx, sold it and purchased an yggy (analog 2) then just bought another onyx and sold the yggy! First time I’ve sold and then bought back the same component... The yggy sounded great with aes/ebu, better than with spdif in my system, and I don’t use usb so I can’t comment on that. Morpheus was an option but I didn’t want to spend that much, and with the dac3 chips coming better to upgrade the cheaper onyx to my mind. So, why did I make the switch? Short answer is I bought an Ambre when I had the yggy, and I’d always wanted to try the onyx with the I2S input. In my system (sonictransporter roon server, Ambre, almarro a318b, DeVore nines) onyx has a better soundstage, brings vocals more to the fore (more forward where yggy more recessed?) and has slightly better tonality/instrument timbre. Mind you it was close and yggy is a great sounding DAC, but I like the smaller form factor of the onyx and the synergy with Ambre, and there is dac3... I2S was better for me than aes/ebu or spdif from the Ambre to the onyx, and offered the extra something that vaulted it above the Yggdrasil.

 

[LevPush]

I can offer some perspective on onyx/yggy as I had the onyx, sold it and purchased an yggy (analog 2) then just bought another onyx and sold the yggy! First time I’ve sold and then bought back the same component... The yggy sounded great with aes/ebu, better than with spdif in my system, and I don’t use usb so I can’t comment on that. Morpheus was an option but I didn’t want to spend that much, and with the dac3 chips coming better to upgrade the cheaper onyx to my mind. So, why did I make the switch? Short answer is I bought an Ambre when I had the yggy, and I’d always wanted to try the onyx with the I2S input. In my system (sonictransporter roon server, Ambre, almarro a318b, DeVore nines) onyx has a better soundstage, brings vocals more to the fore (more forward where yggy more recessed?) and has slightly better tonality/instrument timbre. Mind you it was close and yggy is a great sounding DAC, but I like the smaller form factor of the onyx and the synergy with Ambre, and there is dac3... I2S was better for me than aes/ebu or spdif from the Ambre to the onyx, and offered the extra something that vaulted it above the Yggdrasil.

Do you know if there is a way to use Tidal directly from Ambre without using Roon?

 

[George Hincapie]

I can offer some perspective on onyx/yggy as I had the onyx, sold it and purchased an yggy (analog 2) then just bought another onyx and sold the yggy! First time I’ve sold and then bought back the same component... The yggy sounded great with aes/ebu, better than with spdif in my system, and I don’t use usb so I can’t comment on that. Morpheus was an option but I didn’t want to spend that much, and with the dac3 chips coming better to upgrade the cheaper onyx to my mind. So, why did I make the switch? Short answer is I bought an Ambre when I had the yggy, and I’d always wanted to try the onyx with the I2S input. In my system (sonictransporter roon server, Ambre, almarro a318b, DeVore nines) onyx has a better soundstage, brings vocals more to the fore (more forward where yggy more recessed?) and has slightly better tonality/instrument timbre. Mind you it was close and yggy is a great sounding DAC, but I like the smaller form factor of the onyx and the synergy with Ambre, and there is dac3... I2S was better for me than aes/ebu or spdif from the Ambre to the onyx, and offered the extra something that vaulted it above the Yggdrasil.

A really interesting response, thank you.

In my main system, I use AES to connect my Ambre to my Adagio, but have tried I2S in the past, and honestly, I can't tell them apart. The onyx is an excellent DAC. With the upgraded Transient 3 modules it is going to be a top tier product.

You've got me thinking.

 

[George Hincapie]

Do you know if there is a way to use Tidal directly from Ambre without using Roon?

The only approach you could take that I am aware of is to buy the Volumio SD card from Metrum and swap it out for the Roon SD card in the Ambre. Volumio supports Tidal, and there's no fee to pay AFAIK. It will also support playback of network stored files, so other than the Roon interface, you aren't losing anything. In fact, you may gain a little SQ from what I have read, but I have no direct experience of that myself.

 

[roncagg]

A really interesting response, thank you.

In my main system, I use AES to connect my Ambre to my Adagio, but have tried I2S in the past, and honestly, I can't tell them apart. The onyx is an excellent DAC. With the upgraded Transient 3 modules it is going to be a top tier product.

You've got me thinking.

To put some hard numbers to it, I bought the onyx used for $1,300 and the I2S card for $100 (new from Metrum), whereas the Yggy maintains its value somewhat better, and they usually go for $1,700 or so used (analog 2 version) - thus it's a low risk proposition to try the Yggy, then resell it if necessary. As you know the Ambre outputs can all be used simultaneously, so I fed AES to the Yggy and spdif (prior to getting the I2S card) to Onyx, and each to my integrated amp, so comparisons were easy by switching amp inputs (no amp remote though so I had to keep getting out of the chair!). With only $1,400 into the onyx, and assuming the DAC3 upgrade isn't exorbitant, it could be a price/performance winner.

 

[roncagg]

Do you know if there is a way to use Tidal directly from Ambre without using Roon?

I didn’t, thanks for the info and for George‘s follow-up. I have an almost maxed out 2TB drive attached to the roon core holding my ripped CDs, and Tidal for me is mostly for discovering new stuff to then purchase on bandcamp or used CD (old fashioned I guess, I want to own it!).

 

[George Hincapie]

To put some hard numbers to it, I bought the onyx used for $1,300 and the I2S card for $100 (new from Metrum), whereas the Yggy maintains its value somewhat better, and they usually go for $1,700 or so used (analog 2 version) - thus it's a low risk proposition to try the Yggy, then resell it if necessary. As you know the Ambre outputs can all be used simultaneously, so I fed AES to the Yggy and spdif (prior to getting the I2S card) to Onyx, and each to my integrated amp, so comparisons were easy by switching amp inputs (no amp remote though so I had to keep getting out of the chair!). With only $1,400 into the onyx, and assuming the DAC3 upgrade isn't exorbitant, it could be a price/performance winner.

I don't think there's any doubt. I trust Cees implicitly - he is a fabulous audio engineer. I am really looking forward to finding out what the new Transient 3 modules can do, and I agree with your assessment. Of course it won't appeal to the DSD brigade, but that's OK

No Yggy for me to try sadly; No US or UK stock and that isn't likely to change until April at the earliest according to my chat with Schiit UK over the weekend.

It'll be interesting to find out what, if anything, they will do to upgrade Ambre. It's already very good.

 

[lithiumnk]

I don't think there's any doubt. I trust Cees implicitly - he is a fabulous audio engineer. I am really looking forward to finding out what the new Transient 3 modules can do, and I agree with your assessment. Of course it won't appeal to the DSD brigade, but that's OK

No Yggy for me to try sadly; No US or UK stock and that isn't likely to change until April at the earliest according to my chat with Schiit UK over the weekend.

It'll be interesting to find out what, if anything, they will do to upgrade Ambre. It's already very good.

Hi
Cees has no role in development of DAC 3 chips. There is no part sharing b/w sonnet & metrum.
These chips were developed with some other company. The development started before Cees came back to Metrum. So, it's possible that these chips are not the same as used in morpheus or successor of morpheus.
Its a good thing for us. I don't want sonnet & metrum to sound same. They should offer different flavour of NOS.

 

[tesarpa]

Volumio supports Tidal, and there's no fee to pay AFAIK.

The free version of Volumio has no direct support of Tidal. You can stream from computer or phone via AirPlay or UPnP, but if you want to use phone only as a controller, then you need BubbleUPNP server running somewhere on your local network. Then iPeng, Linn Kazoo or Lumin App on mobile do the trick. It is not so difficult as it sounds

 

[George Hincapie]

The free version of Volumio has no direct support of Tidal. You can stream from computer or phone via AirPlay or UPnP, but if you want to use phone only as a controller, then you need BubbleUPNP server running somewhere on your local network. Then iPeng, Linn Kazoo or Lumin App on mobile do the trick. It is not so difficult as it sounds

And the paid version? I saw a screenshot of latest Volumio that had full Tidal support. I have accessed Volumio on an iPad before, so no other control apps should be needed.

 

[George Hincapie]

Hi
Cees has no role in development of DAC 3 chips. There is no part sharing b/w sonnet & metrum.
These chips were developed with some other company. The development started before Cees came back to Metrum. So, it's possible that these chips are not the same as used in morpheus or successor of morpheus.
Its a good thing for us. I don't want sonnet & metrum to sound same. They should offer different flavour of NOS.

Hmm...what is your source for this?

I spoke with Cees last week and he said nothing of what you posted.

There may have been no part sharing yet, but the Cees has only just regained control of MA and neither company has released any product during that time frame. I want Cees best work in Metrum products, as I feel sure he does.

The DAC3 update news was supposed to be end of December, we are now at end of January. Let's see what news comes; I do not see Cees agreeing to crappy DAC chips made by God know who going in his flagship DACs.

How do you see the two companies operating going forward? I have my view, but what the reality is only time will tell.

 

[lithiumnk]

Hmm...what is your source for this?

I spoke with Cees last week and he said nothing of what you posted.

There may have been no part sharing yet, but the Cees has only just regained control of MA and neither company has released any product during that time frame. I want Cees best work in Metrum products, as I feel sure he does.

The DAC3 update news was supposed to be end of December, we are now at end of January. Let's see what news comes; I do not see Cees agreeing to crappy DAC chips made by God know who going in his flagship DACs.

How do you see the two companies operating going forward? I have my view, but what the reality is only time will tell.

Sorry can’t disclose the source.
Cees will continue with sonnet. Morpheus successor is already in development as posted on fb few months back.
I am also eagerly waiting for dac 3 chips for pavane. I like the concept of modularity. The chips are user replaceable.
I know more than 10 people personally who own adagio/pavane/jade/onyx in my country. All waiting for dac3 upgrade.
Lets hope for the best.

 

[George Hincapie]

Sorry can’t disclose the source.
Cees will continue with sonnet. Morpheus successor is already in development as posted on fb few months back.
I am also eagerly waiting for dac 3 chips for pavane. I like the concept of modularity. The chips are user replaceable.
I know more than 10 people personally who own adagio/pavane/jade/onyx in my country. All waiting for dac3 upgrade.
Lets hope for the best.

Please forgive me then for (respectfully) treating what you say with caution.

If what you say is true then I am super disappointed.

I like the concept of modularity too, but I don't like the idea of putting new DAC chips in my Adagio that I know nothing about.