All amps sound the same!
Feb 6, 2009 at 7:30 PM Post #16 of 57

FallenAngel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Basically, I never visit any of those threads on AVS Forum anymore because so many of the folks over there on those threads are so unpleasant and disrespectful.


Same thing happens on all forums, including this one but to a smaller degree regarding some topics like interconnects, power cables, power conditioners, etc.

I avoid butting heads with people on topics where people have a strong opinion and for some reason think you owe it to them to explain your position while they stand there repeating the same thing over and over again, claiming that they must be correct and if you disagree, you must prove your position while they can simply claim theirs. Whew, as you can see, I've seen it enough times to have a full monologue describing my position on the argument.
tongue.gif
 
Feb 6, 2009 at 8:10 PM Post #17 of 57

Canman

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Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Same thing happens on all forums, including this one but to a smaller degree regarding some topics like interconnects, power cables, power conditioners, etc.

I avoid butting heads with people on topics where people have a strong opinion and for some reason think you owe it to them to explain your position while they stand there repeating the same thing over and over again, claiming that they must be correct and if you disagree, you must prove your position while they can simply claim theirs. Whew, as you can see, I've seen it enough times to have a full monologue describing my position on the argument.
tongue.gif



The Head-Fi mods do a nice job keeping the site friendly. DBT discussion was banned from the equipment forums because it always got nasty.
 
Feb 6, 2009 at 9:00 PM Post #18 of 57

Uncle Erik

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I've been a member of AVS Forum for many years. I find that the information that is available on the video side there is very helpful, and while there a disagreements from time to time, the videophiles are pretty even-handed and open-minded.

On the other hand, there is this pack of extremely arrogant and dogmatic skeptics (for lack of a better word) who populate the CD players forum, and who from time to time invade other forums, such as the amps forum, whenever a thread like the one referenced gets posted. There are different points of view on Head-Fi on some of these types of issues as well, but a lot of the folks over there are just nasty and completely full of themselves.

Basically, I never visit any of those threads on AVS Forum anymore because so many of the folks over there on those threads are so unpleasant and disrespectful.



That's one perspective, and I don't entirely disagree.

What that has to be balanced with, however, is the army of paid shills that descend on sites every now and then.

I won't get into specific products, but there are some with extremely large markups. Sometimes in the hundreds or thousands of percent. Whether or not they "work" is one thing, but the shills shamelessly promote them in order to fill their pockets.

That is unfair.

If someone wants to advertise a product, then register as a MOT, sponsor a subforum and put up banner ads. That's fine.

If you're going to sell something, be open about it. Shills, viral marketing, etc. do not sit well with me.
 
Feb 6, 2009 at 9:23 PM Post #19 of 57

PhilS

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif
That's one perspective, and I don't entirely disagree.

What that has to be balanced with, however, is the army of paid shills that descend on sites every now and then.

I won't get into specific products, but there are some with extremely large markups. Sometimes in the hundreds or thousands of percent. Whether or not they "work" is one thing, but the shills shamelessly promote them in order to fill their pockets.

That is unfair.

If someone wants to advertise a product, then register as a MOT, sponsor a subforum and put up banner ads. That's fine.

If you're going to sell something, be open about it. Shills, viral marketing, etc. do not sit well with me.



I agree with you 100%.

What I see a lot of on that other forum, though, is that some guy who's relatively new to audio comes on the CD forum and says he's got a certain CD player (say it's basically a $100 basic player) and he's getting into higher end audio, and just purchased new speakers, etc., and he'd like to know what people think of this particular Marantz or Cambridge CD player, or whatever. Next thing you know, he's descended upon by these folks who try to explain that nobody has ever shown in a DBT that a well-made $100 CD player sounds any different than a $5,000 player. The argument then goes back and forth for 20 pages, and continues long after the OP has given up and gone elsewhere. And it's the same half dozen guys who repeatedly do this, as if they are saving the world from some horrible fate.

Setting up a Sound Science sub-forum like they did here and banning the DBT discussion from the other forums is what they need to do an AVS Forum. It's been suggested several times, to no avail.
 
Feb 6, 2009 at 11:37 PM Post #21 of 57

Drag0n

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Digital is digital......just ones and zeros, so all CD players sound the same!
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biggrin.gif
 
Feb 7, 2009 at 12:13 AM Post #22 of 57

atbglenn

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All amps sound the same? Well, if I can hear a BIG difference with my 56 year old, totally abused bass playing in very loud rock band ears, anyone can......
 
Feb 7, 2009 at 12:43 AM Post #23 of 57

TzeYang

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If all amps of the same/similar topology are working at the most linear region it was suppose to be, then it will all sound the same.

Analog amplifiers is all about making minimal mistakes. The mistakes are what causes the difference at the first place. Otherwise, they would really sound the same and telling the difference would be impossible.

EDIT: Another cause of difference would be like the difference between a feedback amplifier and a non feedback amplifier. It'll take a huge difference in topology to cause an audible amount of difference.

Of course, if you're telling me the SR71 and the Mint sounds different.....
 
Feb 7, 2009 at 5:29 AM Post #24 of 57

milkweg

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Quote:

Originally Posted by nullstring /img/forum/go_quote.gif
did you read the thread? It's just trying to isolate the argument.. not trying to claim any certain way..



Yes, I read it. I am actually involved in that thread. For the record, I am in the amps do sound different camp. If all amps sounded the same I most certainly would not have bought a tube amp for headphones.
 
Feb 7, 2009 at 6:05 AM Post #26 of 57

Head Whipped

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Yes but at what point does someone with a love of music and not amplification have to buy in to really enjoy the sound and not the technology or the esoterica of it all? Answer this one and you will end a lot of headaches for some.All amps are not the same ,anyone with a ear and some time to listen in a blind test will tell you this.But there must be a price point in which all those magic caps and snake oil are just fluff on paper and becomes more bragging rights than a audible step up.
$800 and up I think we hit that point in the Headphone amp world.
 
Feb 8, 2009 at 12:02 AM Post #27 of 57

milkweg

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In that thread at AVS one person says every time he buys a new amp he does ABX test on friends and thye can never tell the amps apart. Which leaves the question; why does he keep buying new amps if they all sound the same?
 
Feb 8, 2009 at 1:58 AM Post #29 of 57

kingcrib

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Stop making blind claims: both sides. I dare someone to do some honest double blind randomized controlled comparisons between different amps, connectors, whatever. You will have your answer after completing this testing. Until you do this testing your opinion is totally biased by your own self interests.
 

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