[thomson]

What I said was that my conclusions was true only if the stock cable is not a "perfect window." (See the line about "THE absolute perfect cable") In most instances you can make a strong case that the original equipment manufacturer had to make concessions when designing a cable that were due to marketing, profit, and price constraints (all intertwined). Every design process is like that but aftermarket often have a little more money to play with when choosing materials since they charge more.

Sorry, I misread your post and somehow missed the part about "THE absolute perfect cable" so it seems we're in agreement

 
I had my K812 upgraded to balanced by Brian (BTG Audio) in October last year, also with the midnight cable.
Definite improvement but it's hard to tell how much of the improvement that was due to the mod only since it of course also involved using the midnight cable (instead of the stock cable) and the balanced out (instead of SE out) from the amplifier.

 

[twiceboss]

Which better between hd800 and k812 in terms of soundstage?

What about treble?

 

[oneguy]

Which better between hd800 and k812 in terms of soundstage?

What about treble?

You're about to start another start another off-track thread tangent with that question. Here is the summary of the next 10 posts that will try to answer that question: it depends on your ears.
 
I own both and at I reach for different headphones at different times.
 
IN MY OPINION - The HD800 has a wider soundstage. I THINK most people hold this view. YOU CAN DECIDE if that is better or not.
IN MY OPINION - The HD800 has better management of treble and TO MY EARS it does a better job at being a jack of all trades.
IN MY OPINION - The AKG812 has a fuller bass presentation than the a HD800.
 
YOU CAN DECIDE what that means for you but the best thing of all is demo the headphones. I didn't think much of them after reading the reviews and because of the general lack of chatter about them on the forums but I bought a pair AFTER already owning the HD800.
 
Sorry for there caps but i wanted to emphasize that these are all opinions (either mine or yours). Anyone who tries to tell you a definitive answer is leading you in a direction that your ears may not agree with.

 

[Danz03]

While I agree with you on most of your opinions, just curious how you thought HD800 could do a better job at being a jack of all trades when you said it yourself that AKG812 has a fuller bass presentation? Surely any music that requires fuller bass wouldn't sound good with HD800, like RnB, EDM, Dance and pop music in general?
 
To me also, the HD800 has much more treble than the AKG812, but not a good thing in my opinion, especially around 6kHz, it really hurts my ears, especially with pop and dance music.
 
Quote:

  IN MY OPINION - The HD800 has a wider soundstage. I THINK most people hold this view. YOU CAN DECIDE if that is better or not.
IN MY OPINION - The HD800 has better management of treble and TO MY EARS it does a better job at being a jack of all trades.
IN MY OPINION - The AKG812 has a fuller bass presentation than the a HD800.
 

 

[Danz03]

Wow! How did you upgrade the AKG 812 to balanced? Is it a difficult mod? I mean the unbalanced soundstage is quite impressive to me already, would be curious to hear what they are like balanced.
 
Quote:

  Sorry, I misread your post and somehow missed the part about "THE absolute perfect cable" so it seems we're in agreement

 
I had my K812 upgraded to balanced by Brian (BTG Audio) in October last year, also with the midnight cable.
Definite improvement but it's hard to tell how much of the improvement that was due to the mod only since it of course also involved using the midnight cable (instead of the stock cable) and the balanced out (instead of SE out) from the amplifier.

 

[thomson]

 
While I agree with you on most of your opinions, just curious how you thought HD800 could do a better job at being a jack of all trades when you said it yourself that AKG812 has a fuller bass presentation? Surely any music that requires fuller bass wouldn't sound good with HD800, like RnB, EDM, Dance and pop music in general?
 
To me also, the HD800 has much more treble than the AKG812, but not a good thing in my opinion, especially around 6kHz, it really hurts my ears, especially with pop and dance music.

I also don't agree that the HD800 does a better job at being a jack of all trades. Both headphones have their weaknesses but the HD800 is the more picky one in my opinion but with the SuperDupont mod, it's a much closer call...

 

[thomson]

Wow! How did you upgrade the AKG 812 to balanced? Is it a difficult mod? I mean the unbalanced soundstage is quite impressive to me already, would be curious to hear what they are like balanced.

 
Contact Brian @ BTG Adio (http://btg-audio.com). He's a nice guy and I'm sure he'll sort you out.
 
You can of course do it yourself but it's not a simple mod and there's always a risk that you end up breaking your headphones since you might have to drill out the old 3-pin Lemo connector to fit the 4-pin one.

 

[Danz03]

I agreed, my HD800 exaggerate background noise, especially with older recordings, pre 80s, analogue tape mastered etc. But with well recorded classical and acoustic music, they sound heavenly.
 
Quote:

  I also don't agree that the HD800 does a better job at being a jack of all trades. Both headphones have their weaknesses but the HD800 is the more picky one in my opinion but with the SuperDupont mod, it's a much closer call...

 

[Danz03]

Thanks, so tempting, being an impatient jerk, just not sure if I can bare to wait that long! I do love the K812, just that the unbalanced thing is bugging me a little.
 
Quote:

   
Contact Brian @ BTG Adio (http://btg-audio.com). He's a nice guy and I'm sure he'll sort you out.
 
You can of course do it yourself but it's not a simple mod and there's always a risk that you end up breaking your headphones since you might have to drill out the old 3-pin Lemo connector to fit the 4-pin one.

 

[MozartMan1201]

Many audiophiles are too hung up on technical specs instead of music.  Try to audition both phones with your favorite musical tracks and see which one you prefer.  Personally, since I only listen to classical/opera, I like and own both Sennheiser (warmth and balance for symphonic music) and AKG (detail, depth and width of soundstage for chamber music & opera).   I plan to replace my HD600 with HD800S soon. 

 

[Danz03]

It's not really a technical specs problem, if you've never used the HD800 to listen to anything other than classical or opera music then that's fine, but a pair of headphones that is labeled as reference monitors shouldn't have attenuated bass or a spiking peak at 6k. I do think the HD800 is perfect for classic music, so maybe they should advertise them for classical music listening only as they do sound terrible with non classical or acoustic music in general.

Many audiophiles are too hung up on technical specs instead of music.  Try to audition both phones with your favorite musical tracks and see which one you prefer.  Personally, since I only listen to classical/opera, I like and own both Sennheiser (warmth and balance for symphonic music) and AKG (detail, depth and width of soundstage for chamber music & opera).   I plan to replace my HD600 with HD800S soon. 

 

[oneguy]

The reason I think the HD800 is more of a Jack of all trades is because it's bass anemic nature doesn't bother me as much as the how the K812 can sound hollow on some recordings. The taughtness of the HD800 bass is interesting on some tracks like Royals by Lorde even if their isn't much body behind it. I agree, I wouldn't listen to R&B or hip hop with them if I didn't have to. That being said I've never really had the inclination to try that since I was a previous LCD-2 and now HE1000 owner.

 

[twiceboss]

Oh man, is there any headphone that have incredible soundstage but with forgiving treble? ....

Now Im using TH600 and yes the soundstage is amazing. My plan is now to have a neutral with larger soundstage than my TH600 and also forgiving treble.

Any recommendation?

 

[EDN80]

Originally Posted by Danz03 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
While I agree with you on most of your opinions, just curious how you thought HD800 could do a better job at being a jack of all trades when you said it yourself that AKG812 has a fuller bass presentation? Surely any music that requires fuller bass wouldn't sound good with HD800, like RnB, EDM, Dance and pop music in general?
 
To me also, the HD800 has much more treble than the AKG812, but not a good thing in my opinion, especially around 6kHz, it really hurts my ears, especially with pop and dance music.

 
Agreed. That's why I love the K812. Great for classical, opera, rock, jazz, hip-hop, R&B, and EDM - they'll excel with any genre you throw at them. 

 

[Danz03]

I think the AKG K812 has great soundstage but not too piercing treble for any kind of music, including non-classical, even being unbalanced. They may not be the most accurate sounding headphones around, but they are a joy to listen to music with in my opinion.

Oh man, is there any headphone that have incredible soundstage but with forgiving treble? ....

Now Im using TH600 and yes the soundstage is amazing. My plan is now to have a neutral with larger soundstage than my TH600 and also forgiving treble.

Any recommendation?