[intoart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why? Will burn-in add base that was never there?

Definitely not!

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by intoart /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am not really a believer in burn-in. ...it is certainly an utterly trivial difference. ...about 20 hours of burn-in... ...differences between amps are only significant if one of them is underpowered.

That explains a lot.

Experience replaced with ideology...

.

 

[estreeter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by intoart /img/forum/go_quote.gif Must have missed it earlier. I am not really a believer in burn-in. I just listen to my cans, and they either improve or not, if so it is certainly an utterly trivial difference. Since I had the K701s a bit over a week before deciding that they sucked (and that HD280s for $80 sounded better!), I would say about 20 hours of burn-in, at most. For the record, I amped them with a Cambridge 340A (though difference between amps are only significant if one of them is underpowered.)

1 week ? intoart, you are often arguing heatedly with folk in various threads who have been listening to the 701s for many hundreds of hours, and you logged 'about 20 hours' on them ? I completely understand that you love your AD900s, but AT didnt saddle them with high impedance.

For the record, I have exactly the same integrated amp as you (OK, the 340A SE, a massive 5w per channel more than the 340A ...) and its not in the same league as many of the dedicated headphone amps that more experienced Head-Fiers are using to drive the 701s. Integrated amps are usually designed to drive speakers (older amps were reportedly better with phones), but you need to spend more than we did to get an integrated with a really good headphone out.

I think we both need to get to a headphone meet and listen to different cans, hopefully driven by something that brings out their strengths.

 

[Cankin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif Equipment in my Signature. Doesnt really matter even if I did like them, I was unable to wear them for longer than 45 min or an hour. Head is too big. You can defend them until your blue in the face. It wont change any of the facts concerning the 701. Tell us the difference in the sound between the older Gilmore and the Lite models.

Raptor is an OTL design which you already know and it isn't a good match with K701, and in fact, Ray designed it with HD600/650 in mind.

I've tried K701 with Glite and M³ for an extended period of time, and these amps drive it decently, much better than the other OTL amp I had, Darkvoice 336. The areas of improvement are dynamics, body and weight, without these, K701 will sound like you said, thin and weightless.

On the other hand, I don't see why people who are so used to and prefer the tone of HD650 with the extra warmth of a tube amp, would enjoy the analytical sound of K701, everyone prefers differently in the end.

I agree with you that the headband on K701 can be better

 

[intoart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreeter /img/forum/go_quote.gif For the record, I have exactly the same integrated amp as you (OK, the 340A SE, a massive 5w per channel more than the 340A ...) and its not in the same league as many of the dedicated headphone amps that more experienced Head-Fiers are using to drive the 701s. Integrated amps are usually designed to drive speakers (older amps were reportedly better with phones), but you need to spend more than we did to get an integrated with a really good headphone out.

The only issue I ever had with SQ on my 340A was some audible hiss from very low impedance phones. It certainly had no shortage of power or any issue driving good phones to their full potential.
The limitations of the K701s are inherent in the phones themselves. Burn-in or a "better" amp will not solve those problems.
My AD900s are better in every way, quite independent of the amp.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by intoart /img/forum/go_quote.gif The limitations of the K701s are inherent in the phones themselves. Burn-in or a "better" amp will not solve those problems.

You sure?
.

 

[bjorn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landis /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't see how the K701/702 on-going crapfest poured over into this thread as the OP never said he didn't dislike the signature of the 'phones nor did he say that the bass quantity was an issue, he said it was bass was distorted. Glad to hear you're enjoying your headphones now, Silverskull!

I agree - totally amazing. It's like no one actually read what he wrote and then the different camps just starting bashing each other over and over again.

 

[lucky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ You sure?

I agree with him, though my post refers to all phones, not merely this one. There's a grand delusion on this forum that if you simply spend enough money on ancillary equipment (amps, sources, cables...), you'll eventually learn to appreciate phones you find flawed. Of course, it's often couched in nebulous terms like "finding the RIGHT amp" or "achieving synchrony", etc, but the premise is the same, and, in my opinion, ultimately false. If you like a truly enjoy pair of headphones, you can enjoy them anywhere, any time, with any equipment. If you truly dislike a pair, no amount of equipment will change this, although the grand delusion insists otherwise.

 

[PeeeMeS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree with him, though my post refers to all phones, not merely this one. There's a grand delusion on this forum that if you simply spend enough money on ancillary equipment (amps, sources, cables...), you'll eventually learn to appreciate phones you find flawed. Of course, it's often couched in nebulous terms like "finding the RIGHT amp" or "achieving synchrony", etc, but the premise is the same, and, in my opinion, ultimately false. If you like a truly enjoy pair of headphones, you can enjoy them anywhere, any time, with any equipment. If you truly dislike a pair, no amount of equipment will change this, although the grand delusion insists otherwise.

I had a problem with the K701s that could not be solved by spending more money on ancillary equipment.
First the problem was blamed on my equipment. After other headfiers were able to reproduce the problems and more testing was done... well some head-fiers had no choice but to blame my quirky music listening habits(or so they think).

Do they not know the top billboard song right now is Boom Boom Pow? <-------- Really captures my AKG bass problems(where are different than what the OP had)

 

[intoart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree with him, though my post refers to all phones, not merely this one. There's a grand delusion on this forum that if you simply spend enough money on ancillary equipment (amps, sources, cables...), you'll eventually learn to appreciate phones you find flawed. Of course, it's often couched in nebulous terms like "finding the RIGHT amp" or "achieving synchrony", etc, but the premise is the same, and, in my opinion, ultimately false. If you like a truly enjoy pair of headphones, you can enjoy them anywhere, any time, with any equipment. If you truly dislike a pair, no amount of equipment will change this, although the grand delusion insists otherwise.

Thank you. Very well put.

I always thought that the two stupidest questions on HeadFi were "What amp did you use them with?" and "How long did you burn them in?"
Those things might (very slightly) improve good phones, but they certainly won't fix bad ones.

As awesome as my AD900s (and AD700s) are out of my Tascam CD player, they also sound excellent powered by an iphone or boombox, as proven by people who demoed them here at work.

 

[silverskull]

Quote:

Originally Posted by intoart /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thank you. Very well put. I always thought that the two stupidest questions on HeadFi were "What amp did you use them with?" and "How long did you burn them in?" Those things might (very slightly) improve good phones, but they certainly won't fix bad ones.

well my problem is that i don't have an amp yet.i will set up a new thread when my amp's here to share with every1 the amp that i've been anticipating.currently the enclosure's just been ordered and parts are coming one by one.i must say that indeed the 702's are good headphones but unfortunately i do not have many friends who are such audiophiles like me to own something like a HD600 or 650,thus i don't have the opportunity to try one.would like to try one sumday and compare it with the sound signature of my 702's.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree with him, though my post refers to all phones, not merely this one. There's a grand delusion on this forum that if you simply spend enough money on ancillary equipment (amps, sources, cables...), you'll eventually learn to appreciate phones you find flawed. Of course, it's often couched in nebulous terms like "finding the RIGHT amp" or "achieving synchrony", etc, but the premise is the same, and, in my opinion, ultimately false. If you like a truly enjoy pair of headphones, you can enjoy them anywhere, any time, with any equipment. If you truly dislike a pair, no amount of equipment will change this, although the grand delusion insists otherwise.

Well, the statement I was referring to was this:
Quote:

Originally Posted by intoart /img/forum/go_quote.gif The limitations of the K701s are inherent in the phones themselves. Burn-in or a "better" amp will not solve those problems. My AD900s are better in every way, quite independent of the amp.

I haven't heard the AD900, but it can't be «better in every way» («better» without quotes or «IMO»), otherwise it would be the No.1 recommendation on Head-Fi. Of course the K 701 does have limitations, like every other headphone I've heard. But there's a reason why I like it and use it more than my other headphones. So beside its limitations it must have qualities – which just don't appeal to everyone, like its shortcomings aren't excusable to everyone.

Another important point is the patience and time you dedicate to a new headphone. Be it for your own acclimatization (if you don't believe in break-in for some reason) or break-in or both. It's well documented on this forum how important this point is with the K 701. Give it at least 300 hours! Name it adaptation if you prefer it that way. The result will be the same. If you aren't ready to get involved with an unfamiliar, new characteristic (which takes... time), you unnecessarily limit yourself to a narrower choice of sonic signatures and possibly miss some refreshing new experiences.


Quote:

Originally Posted by intoart /img/forum/go_quote.gif I always thought that the two stupidest questions on HeadFi were "What amp did you use them with?" and "How long did you burn them in?" Those things might (very slightly) improve good phones, but they certainly won't fix bad ones.

That's why I asked and will again: «You sure?» How did you come to this conviction? And why are you talking of a «bad headphone» in the context of the K 701? How can it be that I and others like it then? Do you think some people have a weakness for bad sound?

Quote:

As awesome as my AD900s (and AD700s) are out of my Tascam CD player, they also sound excellent powered by an iphone or boombox, as proven by people who demoed them here at work.

You know: different strokes for different folks! And luckily the AD900 doesn't need break-in.

.

 

[intoart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif I haven't heard the AD900, but it can't be «better in every way» («better» without quotes or «IMO»), otherwise it would be the No.1 recommendation on Head-Fi.

It very definitely should be the #1 recommendation here on HeadFi (with the more affordable AD700 as the #1 on a budget.)
The only reason it isn't is that not enough people have heard it yet. Once a few more do hear it, the recommendations will undoubtably snowball.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by intoart /img/forum/go_quote.gif It very definitely should be the #1 recommendation here on HeadFi (with the more affordable AD700 as the #1 on a budget.) The only reason it isn't is that not enough people have heard it yet. Once a few more do hear it, the recommendations will undoubtably snowball.

So you should help bumping the «ATH-AD900 appreciation thread». But you can imagine that others who've heard it still have differing preferences? Or will everybody be thrilled?
.

 

[olblueyez]