AirPods Max
Jan 19, 2021 at 11:47 AM Post #2,642 of 5,629
AirPods Max teardown makes Sony and Bose headphones look ‘like toys’

iFixit is particularly fond of the headband hinge mechanism found between the band and the ear cups, which it notes can be detached “with just a SIM card removal tool or paperclip, without even opening the ear cup.” It calls this “perhaps the most elaborate part of the AirPods Max”
 
Jan 19, 2021 at 11:53 AM Post #2,643 of 5,629
Jan 19, 2021 at 11:57 AM Post #2,644 of 5,629
AirPods Max teardown makes Sony and Bose headphones look ‘like toys’

No surprises there. Apple’s build quality really is fantastic on nearly everything they produce.


Regarding some the sentiments in this thread about how the APM don’t sound as good as a great wired pair like a 6XX, I agree, but they still sound phenomenal compared to anything consumer grade. As I said in an earlier rant, Apple’s MO with any of its products is not to compete with enthusiast-grade options, but rather, to offer something much better than consumer-grade, thereby elevating the entire market, and then bolstering it with computational features that no one else can compete with.

I think that’s the real playbook with AirPods Max and I think the biggest product flaw is the fact that spatial audio doesn’t work with your home theater because the Apple TV doesn’t yet support it. That’s the biggest missing piece that will give the APM a purpose. Right now, they don’t sound as good as great audiophile headphones and they’re not as portable as AirPods Pro, so they sort of live in this no man’s land. But once they can function as a great home theater audio experience - complete with Apple’s spatial audio for movies and shows - then they’ll have a real purpose and a real uniqueness in their position in the market.

It’s precisely the problem the HomePod suffered initially. When released in 2018, it wasn’t a great product because it was too expensive to compete with Alexa devices and not versatile enough to serve as a real living room speaker. But once Apple added all the home theater stuff via software updates, the entire product was transformed from this niche device that didn’t really have a reason to exist - into a truly compelling product in the Apple ecosystem.

I think AirPods Max will follow the same trajectory.
 
Jan 19, 2021 at 12:04 PM Post #2,645 of 5,629
AirPods Max teardown makes Sony and Bose headphones look ‘like toys’

No surprises there. Apple’s build quality really is fantastic on nearly everything they produce.


Regarding some the sentiments in this thread about how the APM don’t sound as good as a great wired pair like a 6XX, I agree, but they still sound phenomenal compared to anything consumer grade. As I said in an earlier rant, Apple’s MO with any of its products is not to compete with enthusiast-grade options, but rather, to offer something much better than consumer-grade, thereby elevating the entire market, and then bolstering it with computational features that no one else can compete with.

Realistically, no one should expect an ANC pair of headphones to sound as good as a non-ANC or even BT pair of headphones in the same price bracket. ANC, Bluetooth, etc. all require additional R&D as well as hardware to actually run (which also requires additional R&D). To be frank, it's not uncommon to see a pair of BT ANC headphones sound like a pair of headphones ⅓ their price (with respect to pure sound quality).

It’s precisely the problem the HomePod suffered initially. When released in 2018, it wasn’t a great product because it was too expensive to compete with Alexa devices and not versatile enough to serve as a real living room speaker. But once Apple added all the home theater stuff via software updates, the entire product was transformed from this niche device that didn’t really have a reason to exist - into a truly compelling product in the Apple ecosystem.

To be honest, Apple designed the HomePod as a speaker first and a smart assistant second. People were expecting it to be a smart assistant first, and a speaker second. Just about every review praised the speaker for its quality, but felt it was let down by the limited nature of Siri. it was a fair critique too. I feel like this was the major downfall of the OG HomePod. Unless you treated it like an expensive wireless speaker, you really weren't going to like it. The Mini seems much better priced, but for what it is, it probably would work better as a hybrid battery powered device (rather than a purely plugged in speaker).
 
Jan 19, 2021 at 12:44 PM Post #2,646 of 5,629
To be honest, Apple designed the HomePod as a speaker first and a smart assistant second. People were expecting it to be a smart assistant first, and a speaker second. Just about every review praised the speaker for its quality, but felt it was let down by the limited nature of Siri. it was a fair critique too. I feel like this was the major downfall of the OG HomePod. Unless you treated it like an expensive wireless speaker, you really weren't going to like it. The Mini seems much better priced, but for what it is, it probably would work better as a hybrid battery powered device (rather than a purely plugged in speaker).

The conventional criticism was that HomePod’s lack of success was due to its price and the limitations of Siri. I think the exact opposite is true. As you said, HomePod was a speaker first and a smart assistant second, but I think the problem with the product existed in the fact that it wasn’t a good enough smart speaker, NOT in the fact that it wasn’t a good enough assistant.

I wrote about this almost three ago here:

https://link.medium.com/ptK6tKq9adb

Basically, while Siri obviously needed work, that was not the product’s main flaw. The product’s main flaw is that it was ONLY a music device. It needed to be a living room device. If it’s not going to be a cheap $50 kitchen device to compete with Alexa, then it needed to be a full-on living room device.

The sound quality is excellent for what it is, but when you can’t even use the thing as part of your home theater, you’ve siloed it off into this tiny little space where it exists only as a niche music player. That just doesn’t cut it. People don’t want to spend $349 each on something so limited.

Three years later and it’s an entirely different product. It now has AirPlay 2. It now works natively with your Apple TV. It now supports Atmos. It now plays Apple TV menu sounds and even game sounds. Those used to be routed to the TV internal speakers due to audio latency limitations. It now has intercom functionality and speakerphone. And yes, Siri has gotten significantly better since. And the price dropped from $349 to $299, with periodic sales that sometimes bring it all the way down to $199.

HomePod today is an entirely different product. I think it’s finally a very compelling product. But as I mentioned in that article, there are still a few pieces missing. For example, I’d like to see surround sound. Imagine being able to use two HomePod Minis as your rear channels. Imagine a SubPod (or HomeWoof?) And of course, it needs some sort of API or pathway (AirPlay 3?) whereby you can use your HomePods with external devices, like your PS5.

Once those few remaining pieces are in place, the HomePod will have become a complete living room device that obviates the need for any A/V receiver or speaker system for most people. That market will still exist for audiophiles, but for most consumers, a stereo or surround sound HomePod system will sound fantastic and will be the only speakers they need in their living room.
 
Jan 19, 2021 at 1:03 PM Post #2,647 of 5,629
I'm moving up from the Beats Solo3 and as far as I can tell it's night and day. I can hear so much more of the music. Solo3 was fun before but now it's just flat and muddled. It does have much less stage and range, which could be something someone likes, but to me it's so dark, soft and really just doesn't compare at all.

It’s odd, maybe I do enjoy having a more narrow soundstage since I also enjoyed Audeze’s Sine. Most audiophiles aren’t fans of on-ear headphones.
 
Jan 19, 2021 at 1:15 PM Post #2,648 of 5,629
Once those few remaining pieces are in place, the HomePod will have become a complete living room device that obviates the need for any A/V receiver or speaker system for most people. That market will still exist for audiophiles, but for most consumers, a stereo or surround sound HomePod system will sound fantastic and will be the only speakers they need in their living room.

Yea. I see the HomePod competing directly with soundbars as well as attracting customers who would normally just use the built in TV speakers. These markets are probably a lot larger than dedicated 5.1 setups. I see Apple potentially leading the way, if not dominating, these markets. Apple is better positioned to get consumer attention for their speakers than maybe any other seller of soundbars or smart speakers that aim to serve audio needs for the TV.

Though the HomePod failed to make large sales for the smart home functionality, the focus on sound quality - expanding with features like Atmos support and multiple speaker pairing - has a lot of potential for growth compared to competitors.

Then the HomePod mini is a cheap buy for people into the smart speaker end of things, with less emphasis on TV pairing.

Now...in terms of audiophiles or enthusiasts preferring the HomePod over traditional speaker manufacturers like ELAC, for example? I don't see HomePod competing earnestly for those enthusiasts too much. I tried comparing two HomePods against my ELAC Uni-fi setup...and much preferred ELAC.
 
Jan 19, 2021 at 7:57 PM Post #2,649 of 5,629
While I understand the limitations of bluetooth transmission, I‘ve been comparing Tidal HiFi vs Apple Music, and it does seem that the lossless files streamed to the APM do sound better and I can hear more detail, and get even more of those low end rumbles in the bass that I enjoy. Anyone has any experience in this?

On a separate note, I’m wondering if anyone has tried running the APM thru an external DAC? While I understand that the APM wires has their own DAC... Does it benefit in anyway? Or everything is just the same as running wirelessly? The cables are currently backordered and I have no way to test this at the moment...
 
Jan 19, 2021 at 8:30 PM Post #2,650 of 5,629
While I understand the limitations of bluetooth transmission, I‘ve been comparing Tidal HiFi vs Apple Music, and it does seem that the lossless files streamed to the APM do sound better and I can hear more detail, and get even more of those low end rumbles in the bass that I enjoy. Anyone has any experience in this?

On a separate note, I’m wondering if anyone has tried running the APM thru an external DAC? While I understand that the APM wires has their own DAC... Does it benefit in anyway? Or everything is just the same as running wirelessly? The cables are currently backordered and I have no way to test this at the moment...

It may be placebo, but I’ve also noticed this with other headphones. The AAC Bluetooth codec transmits at 264kbps vs 256kbps files on Apple Music so it is possible for lossless to sound better because it’s converting a higher-quality file.
 
Jan 20, 2021 at 2:06 PM Post #2,651 of 5,629
I really can't tell the difference between Spotify, Tidal HiFi and Amazon personally when I A/B/Ced them with the APMs.
Not having high end gear but good quality gear: Grado SR125e, Periodic Audio Be and C, and some Chinese 5BA and 1DD set up that sound pretty darn good. I could tell from each set through my LGV30, through my old and new iPhone, and through my PC or Mac that Tidal >Amazon > Spotify. Tidal by a long stretch...I wish I didn't, though! :) (But you're comparing BT sound here versus wired in my example...) My bad...
 
Last edited:
Jan 20, 2021 at 2:23 PM Post #2,652 of 5,629
Surprisingly Beats Solo3 is still one of my favorite headphones of all-time, and I’ve heard a lot of wireless headphones. It surprises me every time I put them on, expecting the charm to wear off.

I wonder if I’d feel the same about AirPods Max, that’d be the real test for me since they’re considerably more expensive.
My daughter has a set of Solo 3's that I use for watching movies or podcasts on my phone. Compared to my wired IEM's they sound muffled and disappointing. If the AirPod Max's sound even remotely close to the level of the Solo 3's they are grossly overpriced. Gotta believe that APM's sound much, much better.
 
Jan 20, 2021 at 2:41 PM Post #2,653 of 5,629
My daughter has a set of Solo 3's that I use for watching movies or podcasts on my phone. Compared to my wired IEM's they sound muffled and disappointing. If the AirPod Max's sound even remotely close to the level of the Solo 3's they are grossly overpriced. Gotta believe that APM's sound much, much better.

Personally I think the APM are more muddy than 6xx. And they are FAR less muddled across the entire frequency range than the XM3. Never heard the Solo 3, but I think the general consensus is that the APM is better.
 
Jan 20, 2021 at 2:56 PM Post #2,654 of 5,629
My daughter has a set of Solo 3's that I use for watching movies or podcasts on my phone. Compared to my wired IEM's they sound muffled and disappointing. If the AirPod Max's sound even remotely close to the level of the Solo 3's they are grossly overpriced. Gotta believe that APM's sound much, much better.

I’m sure AirPods Max is much better overall.

I suppose I like a bass-heavy sound more than I’d care to admit since my previous favorite before that was the V-MODA M-100. I can enjoy just about any type of headphone, including a brighter or mid-focused sound, if it’s done well.

I knew my proclamation of fondness for the Solo3 would be met with some criticism, so I always go back to how Tyll from InnerFidelity also loved it and purchased a pair to bring into retirement.
 
Last edited:
Jan 20, 2021 at 3:06 PM Post #2,655 of 5,629
Hi, just curious will the APM benefits when im using an external DAC and play it via wired connection?
I know for wireless it doesn’t
But wired ? Using apple lightning to usb c cable?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top