[lowrider007]

In the exact same way that HP measurements vary according to methodology and may not be exactly representative of what you hear, someone else’s opinion will only be truly reliable to you if at the very least you’d cut their ears off and sew them to your own head.

Modulation of FR curves according to people’s anatomy can be quite significant... up to a point. Personally I find measurements very useful to determine whether a pair of headphone has been engineered to not go past that point or whether they didn’t care.

I understand measurements are important to some people but they don't translate well for me personally into an idea of the sound, I'm just trying to say what works for you may not work for other people, I don't think you can conclusively write off peoples opinions because you find them 'un-scientific', science is important, but it, like sound that can be measured scientifically ends up in our human hearts and minds, I think its very important to hear how we perceive it and share that, some people like Tyll had an innate skill at explaining sound, over the years I learnt what his likes and dislikes were and how they differed from my own, when he explained how a headphone sounded I was 80-90% there, it's a skill like with any hobby that some people and good at and others aren't.

 

[vkenz]

Can measurements tell if is a blotted mess?

 

[MayaTlab]

Can measurements tell if is a blotted mess?

Yes. This is unequivocally so : https://www.dropbox.com/s/ofurxzzmwnsi8l8/B&O H9i.pdf?dl=0
What they won’t tell you quite as well is whether you’ll prefer headphones A over B if both measure reasonably so... but neither the impressions of someone else will anyway.

 

[tgx78]

lol wow.

 

[bluecar]

Got a set to play with.

Upside.....
Connectivity, UX, control and integration with Apple ecosystem is brilliant
Downside.....
Even after a long time fiddling with settings, the sound is (at best) average. Staging is narrow, projection is short, bass is powerful but lacks detail. leading edge accuracy is poor, which dulls the impact of instruments, especially percussion. Vocals/spoken voice is pretty good, but the 'edge' at the top end can intrude a little.

Now, for all of that, it's a wireless set, so I wasn't expecting miracles. But overall (audio wise), disappointing, even compared to the airpods pro.

They're going back. Although nicer to control than my Sony's, the sound is just not there in comparison.

 

[lowrider007]

Yes. This is unequivocally so : https://www.dropbox.com/s/ofurxzzmwnsi8l8/B&O H9i.pdf?dl=0
What they won’t tell you quite as well is whether you’ll prefer headphones A over B if both measure reasonably so... but neither the impressions of someone else will anyway.

You say "but neither the impressions of someone else will anyway", in your mind this an absolute statement, but I think you are wrong to assume this, maybe for you peoples impressions mean nothing but for others they hold value and purpose, and I assume other people like myself can relate to other peoples impressions of sound and that works for us.

Perhaps have you considered that you may not have a very good ability to interrupt peoples impressions of audio and relate that to your own? Personally I would not want to just rely on my own interpretations of FR charts, I think the 'insight' and perspectives of other people is very important.

 

[bedlamite]

Well this thread surely took a turn...

that is just your humble opinion.Soundguys.com, whathifi and many others believe otherwise. According to my ears Sony produces a very capable bass heavy and punchy sound which is matching with the electronic techno music that I adore.

the XM4 is tuned well for pop and techno, basically anything with hard hitting bass. Put on some classic rock or anything else requiring precision and listen to the headphone just collapse into a flabby mess. I don’t need charts to tell me what my ears can clearly hear. There‘s no need to bring in FR charts and websites and what have you.

 

[tkddans]

Got a set to play with.

Upside.....
Connectivity, UX, control and integration with Apple ecosystem is brilliant
Downside.....
Even after a long time fiddling with settings, the sound is (at best) average. Staging is narrow, projection is short, bass is powerful but lacks detail. leading edge accuracy is poor, which dulls the impact of instruments, especially percussion. Vocals/spoken voice is pretty good, but the 'edge' at the top end can intrude a little.

Now, for all of that, it's a wireless set, so I wasn't expecting miracles. But overall (audio wise), disappointing, even compared to the airpods pro.

They're going back. Although nicer to control than my Sony's, the sound is just not there in comparison.

I guess we have different ears and impressions. They sounded so different to me compared to the AirPods Pro.

 

[noper]

I have no idea what anyone means by "technical performance" other than the stuff other the FR curves that can be measured anyway, but what I do know is that the driver is but one of many, many components that contribute to the end result and that its design should be a concern left to the engineers who actually engineered the headphones.

Transient response. Google it for more details. You can input a known waveform like a square wave and see how closely the output matches the input. The closer the output, the more accurate the driver. This is a characteristic of the driver and cannot be faked through dsp or software. So assuming crinacle measured this characteristic before making his comments, I will trust him and conclude the APM drivers are not performant enough for my preferences in this aspect. It's not the only aspect, but it's important to me.

Inner fidelity had a bunch of these measurements. Not sure where they are now. CSD waterfall plots are by far my preferred graph since they can give some insight into this characteristic as well.

 

[lowrider007]

Well this thread surely took a turn...


the XM4 is tuned well for pop and techno, basically anything with hard hitting bass. Put on some classic rock or anything else requiring precision and listen to the headphone just collapse into a flabby mess. I don’t need charts to tell me what my ears can clearly hear. There‘s no need to bring in FR charts and websites and what have you.

Agreed, I listened to a friends pair of XM4's, they sounded very muddy and recessed to me, no clarity at all, no air between the entrustments, poor sound stage and imaging, the list goes on, average at best. I can understand there is an audience for this type of sound, it's 'fun' I guess, but certainly not my cup of tea, I own a pair of PX7's and tbh I don't think much of them either, I actually think the old B&W P5/P7 wireless sounded a lot better.

I hope if anything, that the APM force Sony (and other wireless headphone manufactures) to change how their cans are tuned and drop the smiley face EQ signature.

 

[yticolev]

This video is a ton of fun! Very different than any other APM review. He uses the miked Sennheiser Ambeo binaurals to good effect.

 

[tkddans]

If you haven’t seen it...

AirPod Max for Music Producers


He mainly uses the HD6xx as his reference pair for his job, and looks to compare APM to them here.

Always interesting to see perspectives from different use cases. We listen to music, this guy mixes music.

EDIT:: He isn’t doing a thorough breakdown yet In that video. He more...introduces and explains his high expectations for APM in his job. More videos to come, I think.

 

[blusher]

I've been lurking since the beginning of this thread and have signed up primarily to thank posters here. Thanks! Your positive remarks about the APM, comparisons with with other headphones, and even reading between the lines on negative comments have all solidified my decision to purchase them

It was nice to see this now, as I have also been lurking since the beginning of this thread, and created an account to say the same. So, thank you!

I didn't do a lot of headphone listening before the current pandemic, but working from home all the time now has changed that during the day. I'm used to hearing music and video through a Marantz PM-KI Ruby amplifier powering Focal 806V bookshelf speakers, to give an idea of the type of sound I'm coming from and enjoy. I got the Marantz as an open box item, otherwise wouldn't have been able to afford it. I'm not someone who swaps out gear frequently. I find something that sounds beautiful to my ears and makes me fall in love with my favorite recordings all over again, and stick with it for a while.

After some research, as an end of the year treat, I got the Shure Aonic 50 to try a couple of weeks ago – my first pair of over the ear headphones! – as it seemed that they would be most up my alley without breaking the bank. I don't like a lot of bass, love my treble and mids, and value detail, separation, and clarity. I mostly love the Aonics, and appreciate the wider soundstage from the AirPods Pro I've become accustomed to. They have been a pleasure for the sound I like, and comfortable for me to wear all day.

But I may be returning them and ordering the AirPods Max because for my work I must have something that will go seamlessly between my iMac, iPad, and iPhone, and currently there is a hiccup in the audio stream on the Aonics every time a notification comes in, which is driving me batty. (I need wireless, so suggesting anything else is moot.) At the same time, it's going to be hard to let the Aonics go, but I can't justify having both sets. (The Aonics are still within their Amazon return window, but it will expire before I'll be able to get my hands on a set of APM to A/B compare at home. I can always return the Aonics and repurchase if I don't like the APM, I suppose.)

I've seen some comments from other Aonic 50 owners here who also have tried the APM, and was wondering if, after more time with both, you could expand on your impressions? Much appreciated. I don't know why none of the reviewer comparisons I've encountered mention the Aonics – they are lovely and would seem to be in the same bracket as other sets mentioned.

Spatial audio on the APM is something else. I wished it was available on more sources than iPhone/iPad.

Spatial audio is part of what interests me as well, and I'd also love to hear more from APM owners about it. It's been fun to experiment with on the APP – how big is the difference going to the Max? Apple is expected to release an updated version of their Apple TV box in 2021, and I will be shocked if it does not support spatial audio for home theater listening.

Thanks to you all for sharing your passion and knowledge with us.

 

[bedlamite]

Agreed, I listened to a friends pair of XM4's, they sounded very muddy and recessed to me, no clarity at all, no air between the entrustments, poor sound stage and imaging, the list goes on, average at best. I can understand there is an audience for this type of sound, it's 'fun' I guess, but certainly not my cup of tea, I'm own a pair of PX7's and tbh I don't think much of them either, I actually think the old B&W P5/P7 wireless sounded a lot better.

I hope if anything that the APM force Sony (and other wireless headphones manufactures) to change how their cans are tuned and drop the smiley face EQ signature.

I have PX7s and P7Ws as well, yeah the PX7s have a similar dark sound to the XMs, just not as egregious. Still keep them around, unlike the XM3 which I saw absolutely no sense in keeping. The
P7W is an absolute gem.

But I may be returning them and ordering the AirPods Max because for my work I must have something that will go seamlessly between my iMac, iPad, and iPhone, and currently there is a hiccup in the audio stream on the Aonics every time a notification comes in, which is driving me batty. (I need wireless, so suggesting anything else is moot.)

Man just going by this, sounds like you want the APMs. The Aonics have a cleaner sound but nobody does device switching like Apple. I’d take the slight hit in sound quality for that quality-of-life boost.

 

[tinyman392]

If you haven’t seen it...

AirPod Max for Music Producers


He mainly uses the HD6xx as his reference pair for his job, and looks to compare APM to them here.

Always interesting to see perspectives from different use cases. We listen to music, this guy mixes music.

EDIT:: He isn’t doing a thorough breakdown yet In that video. He more...introduces and explains his high expectations for APM in his job. More videos to come, I think.

I agree with him with the highs, they are piercing. I'm not sure if it's a psychological thing, but they've gotten better for me, though I've also turned the volume down a notch. The highs do get better if you have a better mastered recording though, I did notice that.