[Adnen Ayed]

My question is a serious one. You can't make a blanket statement like you did without being specific about who is at risk. It's lazy and leaves a false impression. Of course my question merits discussion. That's why I asked it. The companies at risk are those where the Airpods Max play most competitively. Bose and Sony, of course. Notice, you didn't say Focal, Audeze, Sennheiser or any of the well known high end brands. That's because based on the market reaction, this is a fantastic consumer product, but it poses no threat to audiophile class companies. Indeed, the APM is not an audiophile class headphone.. In fact, it's more likely to help it as the consumer gets accustomed to the $550 price point for headphones.

Unless it's a $300 priced at $500. That's how the product class is defined. Apple tends to go much above the usual price point as a differentiation strategy.
But it's a general comment since I didn't actually listen to the Airphones.

 

[NCUS]

If MSFT didn't invest money into AAPL in its dark days and make sure Microsoft Office ran properly on the Apple OS, AAPL may not even exist today. Also, the market caps of MSFT and AAPL historically aren't that different. AAPL is bigger today but the top companies flip flopped as the biggest US companies for a while in 2019. People need to get a little more grounded and not personify these companies. AAPL is in it for the money as much as MSFT or BlackBerry was.

 

[ubs28]

High quality audio processing can be very heavy depending what kind of algorithms you are running. Some dedicated DAC’s are very big and get warm, so it is not as light as you may think.

If Apple has more horsepower available, Apple can run better upscaling algorithms than Sony for translating low quality bluetooth digital signal into a high quality analog signal.

So if you got slow processing units like Sony has, you are competing not on the same playing field as Sony is restricted to lower quality algorithms.

That is why Apple is also so good in photography and video, they got the most horsepower available on their smartphones so they can run the best algorithms.

Also to add, that is also why I think some people who claim that their LCD-2 or HD 800 is worse than the APM, is because they might use equipment that is inferior to the algorithms inside the APM.

I did a check this morning with my HD 650 using the algorithms of the Chord Hugo 2 for reconstructing a high quality analog signal of the same digital content, and HD 650 was better.

 

[3Putter]

Tell you what, APM will outsell any headphones in the world very soon. I don’t think there is a lot of competition(Bose & Sony) but even if it’s there, Apple will up the game so high that everyone will just give up. Just my opinion, someone may differ.

I think you're right, these will sell a boatload. But to say Apple will up the game so high everyone will give up? You better hope not. When innovation is stifled we end up with mediocrity. And if you ask me, a majority of people either endure mediocrity or prefer it because they're too lazy to demand more. I am both encouraged and confused on this thread on the APM's. Are they as good as people say? Are they just more hype like the APP's? I'm not going to drop 6 or 7 bills until I get to hear them with my own source.

 

[Trager]

The Bluetooth switches off when you plug in the Lightning to 3.5 mm cable, so you can't use it to seamlessly take calls. You have to unplug the Lightning end to get it to reconnect.

I connected my LCD-XC simultaneously to my PC, iPhone, and TV, using an RME BabyFace Pro FS as a mixer. This way I need only one pair of reference headphones while sitting at my desk. I can take calls using just the microphone on the iPhone, or using the LCD Boom Microphone Cable routed back to the iPhone through the mixer.

I don’t intend to ever use these with the lightning to 3.5 mm cable. That completely defeats the purpose of these headphones, in my opinion. I’m not really that interested in what the drivers are capable of in passive mode, I want to know how good they are with ANC or transparency going and wirelessly paired with my iPad or iPhone.

Also, after using them for calls and some work stuff this morning, the ANC is really very good. I’m used to using my APP for calls because the ANC removes some of the background noise, but the APM are much much better at that. I had one call this morning and answered with my APP because that’s what I’m used to, and someone was running a vacuum cleaner right above my office — it was noticeable (although significantly reduced with the APP ANC); I switched to APM for my next call, and the difference was night and day.

 

[filmgeek47]

I think the reality of the Apple vs critics debate lies somewhere in the middle of the two sides. Apple is regularly over-criticized and mocked when it enters a new market, only to produce a product that changes the game. It also tends to price things as high as it possibly can, and often makes decisions that can frustrate dedicated prosumers but that the average consumer will happily ignore. It's also a company that knows marketing better than anyone, and that tends to turn off critics, and work like gangbusters on everyone else. Having an emphasis on marketing doesn't mean you're BAD at product design, but it does lead to moments like their "courage" for removing a headphone jack.

What critics do seem to consistently underestimate is Apple's X factor: their ability to leverage experience in different product categories for a new one. The DSP functionality seems to be a clear secret sauce for these cans, and I think until we know more it's a mistake to dismiss it as simply a rehash of other DSP tech. That's not in line with what Apple does. It's basically a certainty that Apple worked from the ground up on the processing for these headphones. The built in a ton of microphones and processing power for a reason. Does that mean it will be vastly superior to other solutions? Not necessarily, but given their track record, I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[bobeau]

^ Basically, they know how to hit on all cylinders when it comes to product dev... from industrial design, to R&D, to supply chain logistics, to marketing. You can hem and haw all you want about the price being 2x the amount of competitors, while in reality, they have produced something superior and probably spent at least an order of magnitude more bringing that product to market. They're also likely to sell more of these than all their competitors combined, I feel these are going to be a relative mainstream hit just like the rest of the Airpod line.

They normalized $1k phones afterall.

They do have misses, or rather punts... something like homepod is just a little too isolated in the ecosystem, so it struggled. But it's clear the audio quality is there, it's a precursor to what they did with these IMO.

 

[plakat]

While I consider the discussion of Apples history a bit off-topic, I think sometimes after the decommissioning of Blackberry someone said it quite well: "If you're a business, a leader even in your field, and you spot Apple appearing in your back mirror, its a good time to get your things in order. Because the race might already be over, without you knowing".

I don't think Apple is after the high end crowd (too small a market), but after the mainstream audience that does care about sound quality, values production quality and ease of use -- as usual. And I absolutely think they nailed that...

I think Sony has more than enough on the shelf to build a high end ANC, but that has yet to be seen. I hope they do since it will give us more toys to play with and I think we both can agree that is not a bad thing.

I think they had their chance. And what they produced was subpar regarding sound quality. Now that window of opportunity may simply be closing. Fast.

 

[Monstieur]

Well well well... now we know the potential of the APM driver... plugged them wired to a top end DAP (in my case Hiby R8) and... they are much much improved even if you're limited to 3.5 single ended. The overall signature is more balanced. The bass is much tighter and controlled and is pretty impressive, the mids are still smooth but fuller sounding the upper mids tilt is gone in favor of a reference midrange that is very articulate, the upper treble has more presence which brings more air as well as significantly improved resolution. It's a very natural sounding heaphone, colored me impressed.

Note that they are power hungry High gain and Turbo mode on R8 volume at 50/60 out of a 100 no less and it delivers over 500mW at 32ohms.

I hope third parties will manufacture a proper lightning to 4.4 cable down the line

That's pseudoscientific. The AAC encoder on iOS is transparent and flat up to 18 kHz. The DAP is defective if it's distorting the sound, and the AirPods Max don't care about input power. It probably has a high impedance line input that draws close to zero power. You cannot "push" power into a headphone - only the headphone can draw it. The input seems to clip at ~ 2 V so there's no benefit to cranking the volume at the source either.

 

[angelom]

I deciding this morning that I waiting for the return of my AMP after I trying the Accessibility feature, so I calling UPS to stop the collection today.

The comfort problem for me is continuing. Yesterday is after 30 minutes that I starting feeling discomfort. Today I saying to myself I must waiting more time, but after one hour I'm thinking 'enough'! The discomfort specially outside of my right ear isn't nice and is little sweat too in both ears (the temperature in the room is only 19 degrees celsius! And the thing is that even before that, I can't stop feeling I'm having headphones on and this isn't a good thing, I can never forgetting this. This is NOT happening at all with my h95.

My plan this morning when I cancelling the return is that if the fit is better then I can selling finally my p7 wireless and sony xm3 and keeping both APM and h95 because of benefits of Apple ecosystem and the best ANC the APM is offering of all ANC headphones.

But no, the APM is now 110% definitely going back to Apple.

For the people that can spending more AND appreciating a more neutral/reference sound signature too, you must trying the h95. B&O always offering one month for trying free with free return shipping label. And remember that with the h95 you having a very premium aluminium case too, the h95 is possible folding for travels and is having double the battery life with anc/ambient (and more than 50 hours with ANC and ambient off) than APM and is including a premium 3,5mm cable and inline adapter too, and having aac and aptX adaptive. AND extremely important, the user experience is VERY clearly better for play/pause, next/previous track, volume and ANC/ambient than APM (with the external dials you can controlling the levels of ANC and ambient mode too).

I'm not a b&o fanboy at all, I returning quickly the h9, h9i and h9 3g because of sound signature problems, discomfort and frusrtrating user experience with touch controls. In the beginning I'm sceptical of the h95 but this headphone exceeding my expectation in various ways. Not one of the 30+ wireless (anc) headphones I owning and trying in the past is coming close to the complete package of the h95 (sound, user experience, design and construction quality. Only for the user experience I'm happy paying 150-200 euros more)

 

[Monstieur]

Also to add, that is also why I think some people who claim that their LCD-2 or HD 800 is worse than the APM, is because they might use equipment that is inferior to the algorithms inside the APM.

I did a check this morning with my HD 650 using the algorithms of the Chord Hugo 2 for reconstructing a high quality analog signal of the same digital content, and HD 650 was better.

Define better? The frequency response on the HD650 is objectively inferior to most consumer headphones as it rolls off below 100 Hz. The HD800 is a joke and unusable without extensive EQ.

 

[tkddans]

Anyone who thinks the HD800 can be run untouched from an amp is delusional and trying to justify their purchase by forcing themselves to like the terrible frequency response.

Heh...I wouldn't say EQ isn't better on the 800, but I do really enjoy the 800's without EQ. I'm weird though. I like the highs being so analytical. Maybe too much for many people though, I understand.

 

[davidmolliere]

Pseudoscience and crackpottery. The AAC encoder on iOS is transparent and flat up to 18 kHz. The DAP is defective if it's distorting the sound, and the AirPods Max don't care about input power. It probably has a high impedance line input that draws close to zero power. You cannot "push" power into a headphone - only the headphone can draw it. The input seems to clip at ~ 2 V so there's no benefit to cranking the volume at the source either.

Well you're entitled to your opinion, I simply trust my ears and I do hear differently although I don't have all the technical data here.

 

[Monstieur]

Well you're entitled to your opinion, I simply trust my ears and I do hear differently although I don't have all the technical data here.

The AirPods Max cannot be passively driven, so you cannot test the driver. The analog input is digitized and goes to the internal DSP and DAC. There's no interaction between the source amp and the driver.

 

[davidmolliere]

The AirPods Max cannot be passively driven, so you cannot test the driver. The analog input is digitized and goes to the internal DSP and DAC. There's no interaction between the source amp and the driver.

This would be interesting to know how the conversion happens from the analog feed to the digital section of the APM and how conversion happens and which bitrate are supported (I don't think it happens in the cable given how compact the lighning connector is I don't see a dac being in there but maybe I am wrong). Maybe there is a dev tool somewhere to check the raw data.

Most definitely the analog signal matters as gain changes mean it get louder with better dynamics. Also you can apply EQ in your DAP and it does affect the end result.

Most definitely one thing you overlook there is higher bitrate might be supported wired vs BT (given how Apple is behind in terms of BT codecs supporting hires and higher bitrates). Even if you don't enjoy the full bitrate it's probably a better signal than the BT signal. We don't know the supported bitrate by the H1 chip do we?