AirPods Max
Dec 22, 2020 at 11:15 AM Post #1,277 of 4,888

McCol

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You're asking a really great question here. I remember when I first started looking into "hi-fi headphones" and "audiophile" gear, there was a lot to learn. I had no idea what soundstage was, what separation was. But I quickly learned things like "big soundstage good, small soundstage bad" and "instrument separation good, less separation bad". Like it or not, there is a lot of culture involved in what hi-fi is supposed to be (and a big ass pile of M.F. snake oil).

For anyone lost in the quagmire, repeat after me; it's okay to prefer closed back headphones. Open back headphones aren't automatically superior. It's okay to enjoy a bit more of an intimate sound. Meticulous separation of every instrument does not automatically make for an enjoyable listening experience. It's okay to want a bit of bass emphasis. A neutral sound isn't automatically the be all and end all. What you hear is a billion times more important than any graph.

Trust your ears. Something doesn't have to be "technically hi-fi" to be the best listening experience you've ever had. And what's better than the headphones you enjoy more than any others? Nothing. Get out of your head (no pun intended). Enjoy the music.

Not sure if you meant to use the whole post to me but your more or less saying what I already have. Your point about snake oil rings true though.
 
Dec 22, 2020 at 11:19 AM Post #1,278 of 4,888

spinspin

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This is the thing, I've seen a few of these "from an audiophiles perspective" one guy from last week and this guy today. The guy from last week was clearly not an audiophile, just a guy who reviews a ton of phones and a few other tech gadgets and earns his money from his phone reviews. Now this guy Snazzy Labs I encountered him when I checked out his review of the APP, he conceded that there were other in-ears that did a better job with SQ but that all the features and degree and ease of integration into the apple ecosystem trumped SQ so it was a no brainer to just buy the APP. Looking at his channel today, he is totally not an audiophile, he is a content creator with over 90% of his videos promoting apple products.

I do like his methods of argument that he uses in the videos I have seen, I appreciate his tactics and techniques of persuasion. I could probably learn alot from copying his style and his experience (if I ever wanted to become a youtuber to promote certain brands). I wonder if he comes from a lawyer or a salesman background.

But the real title of this video should be. Airpods Max Review: An apple promoting youtuber's perspective.

Though he is too smart to be truthful :)

Another take...

AirPods Max Review: An Audiophile’s Perspective
 
Dec 22, 2020 at 11:20 AM Post #1,279 of 4,888

Heyyoudvd

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You're asking a really great question here. I remember when I first started looking into "hi-fi headphones" and "audiophile" gear, there was a lot to learn. I had no idea what soundstage was, what separation was. But I quickly learned things like "big soundstage good, small soundstage bad" and "instrument separation good, less separation bad". Like it or not, there is a lot of culture involved in what hi-fi is supposed to be (and a big ass pile of M.F. snake oil).

For anyone lost in the quagmire, repeat after me; it's okay to prefer closed back headphones. Open back headphones aren't automatically superior. It's okay to enjoy a bit more of an intimate sound. Meticulous separation of every instrument does not automatically make for an enjoyable listening experience. It's okay to want a bit of bass emphasis. A neutral sound isn't automatically the be all and end all. What you hear is a billion times more important than any graph.

Trust your ears. Something doesn't have to be "technically hi-fi" to be the best listening experience you've ever had. And what's better than the headphones you enjoy more than any others? Nothing. Get out of your head (no pun intended). Enjoy the music.

That reminds me of a Joshua Valour video I was watching recently.

He was doing a comparison between the Grado SR-80e and the GS-2000e, and he came to the conclusion that the SR-80e is the better of the two.

Not merely a better value or better per dollar, but better, period. Better in absolute terms. He concluded that a $100 headphone sounds better than a $1400 headphone from the same company. And Joshua Valour isn’t exactly a novice. He knows his stuff. He’s incredibly knowledgeable and experienced in the headphone world.

My point is that getting back to my lengthy post from a few pages ago, the entire concept of “a $550 headphone” is meaningless. What does a $550 headphone sound like? What does a $1400 headphone sound like? How many $550 or even $1400 headphones actually sound better than a $200 560S or 6XX?

Not many.

The relationship between price and sound quality completely breaks down once you pass the $150-$200 mark. There are great sounding expensive headphones, there are mediocre sounding expensive headphones, and there are awful sounding expensive headphones.

The price-performance relationship becomes a dart board at a certain point. That’s why so much of what’s discussed on this board and in this community isn’t about actual audio fidelity, but about personal taste as well as the artistic and artisan nature of some of these non-mainstream brands.

That’s why this is a hobby and not a science. We headphone lovers have more in common with Star Wars geeks than with physicists. We’re engaging in hobby. It’s a passion. It’s about materials and designs and customization and socializing within the community - just as much as it’s about sound quality.

This is like Scotch tasting. You can buy a $3000 bottle and enjoy the story behind its creation, the aging the barrels, and the history of the distillery, but at the end of the day, a nice $100 bottle will taste just as good.
 
Dec 22, 2020 at 11:22 AM Post #1,280 of 4,888

Gweeds

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I'm well aware of what Hi-fi is my point being is that on various sites including this one there is a certain amount of snobbery around what perceive to be hi-fi or non hi-fi.

Overpriced in what in what way? Could say the same about any amount of supposed 'hi-fi' products.

The snobbery aspect is absolutely a thing. I'm seeing people who have zero interest in APM's, haven't listened to them and who have undoubtedly far superior and more expensive rigs being pretty dismissive of just why people might like these. Hint - your use cases aren't my use cases.

My main areas of interest outside of music are photography (I'm a professional), and cycling (used to race, too old now). Both of those areas are subject to the same things, particularly the former where some pore over lens tests to produce techincally adept shots that are utterly devoid of life, soul or interest. I'm pretty sure it exists in every area of interest.
 
Dec 22, 2020 at 11:26 AM Post #1,281 of 4,888

tkddans

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Looking at his channel today, he is totally not an audiophile, he is a content creator with over 90% of his videos promoting apple products.

But...he has real hifi gear. He has a room furnished wall to wall for listening to music. Speakers. Tube amps. Two arm-lengths of open back wired hifi headphones. If he’s not allowed to be an audiophile, who is?
 
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Dec 22, 2020 at 11:41 AM Post #1,284 of 4,888

nihalsharma

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When I started out my hifi journey, I bought a Fiio M9 Dap and was using my good old bit broken Bose Soundsports earphone(the one with Bluetooth). I posted the pic of two in an audiophile community and people started killing me. You can guess why. So much so that I was pressured in my mind to buy a new iem. Dozen of iems and 1 year forward (bought Andromeda, Solaris and a lot other iems and daps) on a day I took out the same Bose Soundsports earphones charged them and listened them. And believe me, they sounded really really good. I still use them, I keep them safe and feel bad for they were ignored for so long.

Now, I wonder what an audiophile really is. There is a lot of emphasis on the technicalities of the gears we use but now how much pleasure they give. To me, I love those Bose earphones as much as I love my Campfire Audio Solaris(which is nearly 10 times costlier). Am I not an audiophile? Damn sure, I am. The more money I have spent, the more I have realised that music is more about deriving pleasure and fun. There should be a fair discussion about how much you enjoy listening to a headphones other than what kind of drivers they have.

My two cents.
 
Dec 22, 2020 at 11:55 AM Post #1,285 of 4,888

angelom

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But...he has real hifi gear. He has a room furnished wall to wall for listening to music. Speakers. Tube amps. Two arm-lengths of open back wired hifi headphones. If he’s not allowed to be an audiophile, who is?

Yes, this is true. The only problem I can seeing with his review is that at the end of the video he's saying: "It is my opinion that save perhaps for the $800 b&o h95, the APM are the best bt headphones with ANC you can buy."
 
Dec 22, 2020 at 11:58 AM Post #1,286 of 4,888

spinspin

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Yeh that's true, and I was thinking about the definition of an audiophile when I was writing my post. In reality and technically anyone who has ventured out of the realm of headphones bundled with their phone, did a bit of online research and read some audio stuff, and bought some alternative cans or buds - these people are audiophiles,

Now the definition of an audiophile that I would turn to for advice via a youtube video would be more like a person who creates reviews of plentiful audio products from plentiful brands. Also gives fairly unbiased opinion with recommendations from various brands rather than just the promotion of one brand and all of their products (which is predominantly non audio (pcs phones Os watches etc - apple has like 2 audio products).

But my main point is he is a biased apple promotor, not the 2nd definition of "audiophile" that people should look to for unbiased advice


But...he has real hifi gear. He has a room furnished wall to wall for listening to music. Speakers. Tube amps. Two arm-lengths of open back wired hifi headphones. If he’s not allowed to be an audiophile, who is?
 
Dec 22, 2020 at 12:02 PM Post #1,287 of 4,888

angelom

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But my main point is he is a biased apple promotor, not the 2nd definition of "audiophile" that people should look to for unbiased advice

I don't know how many apple videos by him you watching before but he's very critical many times before of apple products and/or features, like iPhones and MacBooks.
 
Dec 22, 2020 at 12:02 PM Post #1,288 of 4,888

tuvok86

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So these are the best sounding BT ANC headphones you can buy, cool. My problem with that is that they suck at everything else you might buy BT headphones for: portability, convenience, comfort. If you're not supposed to take them out of your living room why the heck do they have to be wireless in the first place?
This only makes sense in the Apple ecosystem where wired headphones are not a thing.

Also, LUL at spending $550 on headphones with a Lightning port in 2020
 
Dec 22, 2020 at 12:05 PM Post #1,289 of 4,888

spinspin

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Yes his review of the APP was really well done, he has a really good and persuasive technique. I was very impressed. After I watched that video even I thought I should buy the APP lol.

But I dug a bit further and I prefer SQ and enjoying my music in my buds. So I opted for something else.

Snazzy is legit. His review of the APP is one of the best on YT. He‘s got serious audiophile equipment as well so he has some cred there.
 

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