[kathy]

hi all, my first post to the forum...been spending last couple days reading through a lot on here and i hope to get a few tips off the experts

well....i got a budget of about £150 to £200 (about $250-$300 i think) and im finally ready to get a decent pair of headphones.

my system consists of sony separates from their high-end 'ES' series of components...tho i know its hardly high end by the standards of a lot of the kit on here lol...but i just mean, it's not like really cheap stuff....

anyway, i was looking at getting a pair of hd600's after reading all the glowing praise for them on here, and in lot of other reviews...but im bit concerned about whether my amp will be up to the job, bearing in mind the impedance of the sennheisers? i dont really want to get into getting a headphone amp at this stage, the headphone socket on my amp is 10mW at 8ohms so id appreciate if anyone could tell me whether i should reconsider my choice of the 600's in the light of this, or whether i should be looking at different sort of headphone altogether for any other reason?

ive had a pair of sony cdr 750's for the last 7 years and they done me proud...i know my sytem doesnt take me up into the rarefied air of serious kit...but i hope i can take a step up now im ready to upgrade and spend a bit more money..

the only caveat i have is that i need phones with at least 3m of cord...room ergonomics unfortunately...and my skills arent really up to replacing cabling with longer lengths

anyway i have rambled on a lot, but you've all given me a lot to think about these last few days and i hope i can get a few pointers from any of you if you have the time.

thanks,

kathy


ps another i was seriously considering is the sony mdr-f1...was discontinued in uk about a year ago but ive seen a few online for a decent price...mistake?!

 

[mkmelt]

The rating you stated for your amplifiers headphone output does not seem to be right. The accepted standard for consumer audio is to place 120 ohm loading resistors at the headphone output, so I doubt your headphone output impedance is 8 ohms.

If your amplifier can produce 10 mw at 120 ohms, maximum, this would be limited to less than 5 mw at 300 ohms (the rated impedance of the Senn 580 and 600), but right on the money for the Senn 590 which is rated at 120 ohm.

Sennheiser specifys the sensitivity of the 580 and 600 at 97 db @ 1000 Hz, (they don't state what the power level in mw is needed to achieve this). However, the stated sensitivity of the 590 is 102 db. This means that the 590 will be able to achieve 97 db sound level needing only approximately 1/4 the power needed by the 580/600 models to do so.

To be sure, the 580/590/600 do not sound identical. However, I have auditioned all three at some length and found over all that the sound of these three Senn models was very similar, and that over time I am sure I would become used to any of them and enjoy them. So if you like Sennheiser for the sound, style, and comfort, then consider getting the 590s. They should work very well with your current equipment, and be less power demanding than the 580 or 600 phones.

 

[bangraman]

Unfortunately I've never come across a piece of Sony kit which has a good headphone out. The headphone thing seems always to be an afterthought. That's why I buy the ES kit which don't have headphone outputs

A headphone amplifier might be in order, which might degrade your budget a bit. I have rather huge, non-portable headphone amps, and I'm thinking about getting a JMT or Fixup amp.
If you're prepared to make the shlep down to London then I think three rabid Head-Fi headphone geeks, me included, are having a get together in early Feb. Duncan should have my Audio-Technica ATH-A900 (Depends on exchange rate but about £120), and if I remember to ask him, he should have the Beyer DT250-80 (About £110). I can bring the HD280 (£90ish street) as well as the Eggo D66 (£70ish shipped) and mtillman may also bring other goodies. Either Duncan or I can also bring the MDR-CD1700 which may still be languishing on ASK's shelves. If you ask Duncan nicely he might bring the HD600's, or even the MDR-F1... I think between us we should have a veritable Aladdin's Cave of sub-£200 headphones for you to try out!

 

[Duncan]

Oooh... Right...

8 ohms, that is the speaker rating.. NOT the headphone one...

MDR-F1... Really dark, dingy, depressed (although quite airy) sound... not very nice at all... and they run at 12ohms, which is scarily low as far as headphones are concerned... I could bring them along, but they have the opposite problem of the Senns, needing to draw too much current which makes amps clip

The HD600s, it won't be worth me bringing them to be honest, with only having portable equipment, and portable amps... they'd be wasted... too thin sounding by far

(There you go mtillman, a perfect excuse for you NOT to hear the Cardas Cable

)

I'm trying to think.. apart from the CD1700s, and the Beyer DT250, there isn't really a lot that you can use on consumer equipment (that is in my possesion) that I could take with me...

I'm going to take the ETYs... but, they don't come with many pairs of silicon tips... so, you'll have to share

 

[bangraman]

Can't we have like a miniature chlorine dip or something?

Having thought about it that's pretty gross as well

 

[kathy]

ok thanks very much for the comments...yea it looks like i made a mistake with the figures i put down...but it also looks like i got myself a bit more thinking to do

the other option i was considering was the sony mdr ds5100, which have the supposed virtual dolby digital effect....it would kill 2 birds with one stone for me, coz i havent got the space for a full dolby digital theater setup and this was something i saw...but from what ive read, they arent up to much as music headphones, and the surround effect varies from review to review - some saying its amazing, better than a lot of pro logic systems, some say its just disorientating. i guess its how each individuals brain interprets the psycho-acoustics of the sound as to how well it works.. all interesting stuff tho

so maybe to sum up i should still be looking at some flavours of sennheisers, maybe the top end sonys? ie mdr cd2000 etc? maybe some grados like sr80's...? and all the others you all mentioned.. hmmm.. food for thought.

thanks for the invite re london, could well make that trip if im still undecided about it all...maybe i could bring along my amp and my current cdr750's then i could make a direct comparison of them all, with the equipment id be using them on.

thanks,

kath

 

[Duncan]

Hiya

The DS5100s are based on the MDR-F1 if memory serves me right, which is already airy to begin with, so they probably didn't have to do too much tweaking with the Dolby settings to get a good sound... might be worth a try, but you'd have to check out to see if they're still 12 ohms... nasty

The CD2000s, reportedly sound a lot inferior to the CD1700s being a lot shallower in the bass, and a lot brighter in the treble... if you could make the meet, and either myself or Bangraman brought the CD1700s along... if you liked the sound of them, they're half the price of the CD2000s, and strangely more readily available in London than in the US, at £80 (They are as rare as hens teeth outside of the UK by the looks of it)

I have a somewhat ill looking pair of SR125s that I could dust down and take to London if you wanted... they retail for £150 in the UK, but look more like they're worth about £15... I don't like them at all, but they may sound good to you... they're 32 ohm which'd go quite nicely with your amp... but the cord is very stiff, and is NOT 3m long, as you requested...

I don't think taking the amp would be very viable unfortunately... we normally meet up in a pub...

If you can go to the meet, bringing along the CD750s would be good...

(I wonder if its half worth putting this meet up in a new thread in the meets section... but, trouble is... location... what d'ya think everyone?? Thanks

)

 

[kathy]

ok thanks for that duncan...i will maybe have to try and find somewhere that does the mdr ds5100 and try it out just to satisfy my curiousity. but you're right, the headphones with that do look like the mdr f1's - tho of course, they're infra-red so probably a quality drop there as well lol

ive been into my local sevenoaks and audio-t outlets for advice and to have a look.....and i have to say i found the whole experience unpleasant at both places.

i was made to feel very uncomfortable...i was spoken to in a very condescending manner, partly i am sure because they just saw me a total newbie to it all..which ok, i am, but partly as a female as well. i explained my current set-up and my needs and budget and asked them about a few headphones i was considering...but i was just totally ignored or even laughed off. they just sort of told me 'these are all that would be good for you' or when i asked about bringing my stuff in and doing comparisons there between them all, 'huh, we're the experts love, stick with us, we'll tell you which headphones are good and which arent ok'

and it was just all very imtimidating - both places were empty and i had 2 or 3 assistants , one talking, the others all looking at me the rest of the time. im not self-conscious particularly but i certainly felt it in those places. i almost wish places like currys and comet sold decent stuff after my experiences at the independents.

anyway, rant over, sorry, but i just wondered if maybe i was unlucky or whether this is the prevalent attitude in the more 'exclusive' hi-fi shops.

but this forum has already provided me with more useful comments and advice than them anyway, so i think it'll be a case of deciding what i want, then probably getting it off the net and saving some money in the process.......tho audio-t are selling the hd600's for £170 at the moment compared with their normal price of £300...hence why i was considering them so strongly. shame my amp aint up to the job

kath

 

[Duncan]

Kath...

If you can't make it to London, but can demo the HD600s and find them to your liking... go to Ask Direct who're based in London... you'll see on that web-page that the HD600s are £120, and that they do mail order... which will undoubtedly be less than £50

Oh, and most hi-fi shops do treat you that way, yes... Once I upgrade my amp (whenever that will be) I'm going to go into my local dealer, and ask him to beat my headphone setup with a speaker based one... and chuckle quietly whilst I see him sweating it out

 

[kathy]

wow - duncan thanks so much, that site rocks !

amazing prices on there, for everything...always good to find a new site like that on the net...frustrated i never knew about it sooner now..and postage is free so id certainly save myself a packet whatever i bought from there.

now this 300ohm impedance that the hd600's have...does this mean i just have to have the volume up substantially on my amp to get the same level of output from them as i would on a lower rated pair? will the actual sound suffer badly from this?

i guess what im getting at is that i know from what ive read elsewhere on here that a headphone amp will give me better results...but accepting that and that i dont get one and just plug them straight into my sony es amp, the sound will still be much better than most other headphones in that price range anyway? its just that from all ive read the hd600's are absolutely brilliant, and i wouldnt want to miss out if they're still perfectly usable with my system, even accepting im not getting the full quality from them that i would with a headphone amp....which i could always add on at a later date.

good to know the snobby attitude i encountered at the dealers wasnt down to me then lol sod them, i'll use em for testing stuff then go off and get it elsewhere i think cheaper - they need to take some customer service training.

kath

 

[Duncan]

the 300ohm thing isn't critical...

and the Sennheisers would still sound good... but, you'd always have that nagging in the back of your mind... now that you've seen this site, that an amplifier would push them better, further...

The Sony amp should be fine, as long as you're not a volume freak... they're not built with that much power on board unfortunately... but if you keep things low, you should be fine

I'd definetly arrange a demo beforehand though... don't forget that you're used to the Sonys... I wouldn't wanna see you open the big box, get out the shiny headphones... and suddenly say 'My Sonys sound better than these!'...

THAT is where an amp comes into it the most

 

[kathy]

yep thats good advice duncan, thanks...

i think i should try and listen to the hd600's and the hd590's after mkmelts comments at the top of my thread...i feel pretty sure they'll both sound a lot better than what im using at the moment...tho to be honest, the cdr750's arent that bad to my, admittedly untrained, ears. im not a volume freak with my music, i dont deafen myself like some of my mates do. listen mainly to modern guitar stuff like coldplay, radiohead, verve..that kind of thing..also use em as tv monitor headphones with me being in a flat and listening to stuff pretty late at night - arent i a considerate neighbour eh?! lol

seems sony is a bit of a dirty word with a lot of people on here and with the dealers, its a shame...i guess i got a soft spot for their kit, i like the build quality and design of their more decent stuff.

but i will try and listen to both of the sennheisers along with my current pair, and see what differences i notice...if the 590's are more suited to my system then i'll go for those - lot of comments on here tho seem to regard them as worse than both the 580's and the 600's - but maybe that's splitting hairs as far as my set-up goes. whatever, i will make another trip to my dealers, make 'em think im buying there as long as i can do some listening first...then will be off to buy from ask direct, assuming im impressed by what i hear.

...and i will tell audio-t exactly how ive used them as well - they need a good kick up the arse.

kath

 

[Duncan]

lol Kathy

Be sure to let us know how things go... and, good luck!

 

[wallijonn]

Jude, send this woman a multi-coloured Head-FI Tee shirt to wear inside the stores. Please.

Instant respect.

Duncan - you just answered my long unasked question. I just scratched the Sony MDR-F1 off my short list. Thank You.

Don't either of you guys have a Marantz 1060? The last one went for under $75 US, in MINT condition. That would be a nice stop-gap HD600 amp. They do have an EBay in GB, don't they? (I just saw a Marantz 63 Mark II KI for under 50 quid. (Item # 1948329568. also, Item # 1948443611).

Are both of you guys married, or what?

I would be inviting this duckie (she la) to my flat pronto

Seriously, you may want to start meeting in residences so that you can bring amps, cd players, ICs, etc. It's what Greg, Matt and I do. We spend hours comparing equipment, and always have a blast.

and I'm surprised Bangerman didn't suggest the ATH A900 when Kathy mentioned that she is mainly into guitar music.

 

[Duncan]

Wallijonn, i'm as single as single could be

If you look in my profile Wallijonn, you'll see that I have a PM66SEKI or whatever it is (its in my profile correctly)... one of the channels of the headphone out has gone though... not quite sure how to fix it... and i've got my trusty XCV2 anyway... thanks for the thought though

The F1s to me, are like the Senn PX200s, but without the bass if that helps you to fathom out their sound further...

And, house prices are too high for me to get anywhere decent too

lol.. all doom and gloom, will have to sell my headphone setup soon, to feed myself