Advice on first major headphone purchase

[kaisor]

Hi all,
 
Soon I will be buying my first higher end headphones, I am thinking the Sennheiser HD 650's but could be persuaded otherwise.
 
My question is, I'm a little confused about the amp and DAC solution that would be best or what my options are in this area.
 
Basically I want to be able to use my Headphones with a DAC/AMP that could be plugged into my PC and then supplied with some HD audio source from my hard drive..... but also I want to be able to use my headphones in other parts of the house so either the combined DAC/AMP unit (or separates is fine) has to be somewhat portable.
 
It doesn't have to portable to the point of travelling etc, I mean if I want to sit downstairs or lie on a bed.
 
Finally - could I use my phone as an output to the DAC/AMP if I steam or store say FLAC audio files on it? or is the hardware in the phone still going to be the weak link in the chain here, limiting the audio quality? therefore I would need a HD audio player of some sort?
 
I know that's quite a demanding set of questions - I would be hugely grateful for any input.
 
PS - My PC I built last year - it was made for gaming so its high spec, but currently doesn't have a serperate sound card - although I read the DAC can "override" the sound card from motherboard or PCI if set up properly in windows?
 
Look forward to hearing your input!
 
Thank you

 

[kaisor]

I forgot to mention, I am budgeting £200 for DAC/AMP,

 

[OldDude04]

A great DAC/Amp for you would be the Cayin C5, it's powerful enough to run the HD650's and portable. Can be used with your PC and your phone. 
 
 
 
 

 
 
PS - My PC I built last year - it was made for gaming so its high spec, but currently doesn't have a serperate sound card - although I read the DAC can "override" the sound card from motherboard or PCI if set up properly in windows?
 

 
When using a DAC via USB, yes, your internal sound card is no longer being used. 

 

[kaisor]

Hey oldDude,
 
Thanks for the reply, is this the same model? as i need to find it in the UK
 
 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cayin-Portable-HiFi-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00O8OI8CQ/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1490531033&sr=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=Cayin+Spark+C5
 
Also would this provide the same functionalitiy? would you recommend the Cayin over the Fiio?
 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/E12A-FiiO-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00IM6WPHU/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics-accessories&ie=UTF8&qid=1490530835&sr=8-1&keywords=Fiio+E12
 
.... Ahhh ok thanks, im glad i dont have to also invest in a sound card - as i will only occasionally listen through my PC.
 
Could you advise on the source? what about the audio source once i have decided on the DAC/amp.
Is it viable to use a phone with the appropraite HD audio files or should i be looking into dedicated lossless portable music players?

 

[Dulalala]

 
Finally - could I use my phone as an output to the DAC/AMP if I steam or store say FLAC audio files on it? or is the hardware in the phone still going to be the weak link in the chain here, limiting the audio quality? therefore I would need a HD audio player of some sort?

Your phone will work fine if you output via USB. 
 
Also, the I believe the HD650 is terminated with a 6.5mm jack, so you would need an adapter to use it with most portable battery powered DAC/Amp as they usually only have 3.5mm output.

 

[kaisor]

Hi Dulalala,
 
So there is a difference in audio quality when using the mini usb output of a phone, compared to the common 3.5mm to 3.5mm link?

 

[kaisor]

Yes I noticed I would need an adapter for those particular headphones, thank you.
 
I originally thought some portable solutions would use the larger adapter but I guess its all about space saving.

 

[Dulalala]

  Hi Dulalala,
 
So there is a difference in audio quality when using the mini usb output of a phone, compared to the common 3.5mm to 3.5mm link?

 
The USB output bypasses the DAC/Amp in the phone while the 3.5mm output on the phone will not. Using the 3.5mm output on the phone will bypass the DAC in the DAC/Amp so it's more ideal to use the USB output to feed the signal to the DAC to make use of both the DAC and the amp.

 

[kaisor]

​wow ok, didn't know that ... seems a lot of people don't. On amazon reviews there are recommendations to buy the 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable to connect to the DAC/amp.
 
And many user pictures with there phone linked via 3.5mm to 3.5 and then Headphones into DAC/amp.
 
Not saying your wrong in any way, obviously I have no idea. But are all of these people actually rendering the product useless, by thinking they are using the new DAC when really its just the AMP section they are using?
 
Would I need a mini USB (android phone) to a 3.5mm input for DAC/AMP then? and then headphones into DAC/amp?
 
Thanks for your patience and reply's so far guys.
 
Every answer opens a new can of worms

 

[OldDude04]

You most likely have a Micro USB not Mini USB plug on your phone, although some newer Androids have USB-C. Here is a Micro USB OTG Cable like what you'd need. And yes, those that are using the 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable to connect their phone to the DAC/Amp are only using the Amp section of the device and the phone's DAC.

 

[kaisor]

Thanks oldDude.
 
Just looked at that cable, but still little confused as to how that then connects to a DAC/amp? I thought the input to the DAC/amp usually in form of 3.5mm?
 
Do I just need a standard male USB to 3.5 on top of the cable you just linked?

 

[kaisor]

Anyone have any thoughts on the "Schiit Fulla 2​" vs something like the Fiio portable DAC/amp choices.

 

[Music Alchemist]

If you are using a DAC/amp as a DAC and amp instead of just an amp, you need to use a digital input; most likely USB.
 
I have the Fulla 2. It's better than the two FiiO amps I had, but is not exactly portable. If you're only using it inside, it should suffice. But at 300 ohms (the impedance of the HD 650) it doesn't have any more output power than the original Fulla. And there are better FiiO amps than the ones I had.

 

[OldDude04]

  Thanks oldDude.
 
Just looked at that cable, but still little confused as to how that then connects to a DAC/amp? I thought the input to the DAC/amp usually in form of 3.5mm?
 
Do I just need a standard male USB to 3.5 on top of the cable you just linked?

 
You plug into that cable using the same USB you would to plug into your PC. If you use the 3.5mm as the input to your DAC/amp from any source, you're only using the Amp. Like Music Alchemist was just saying, to use both the DAC and Amp portions of the device, you need digital input such as USB. 

 

[kaisor]

Ok so ill work out the cabling eventually anyway, thanks for the input on that front all.
 
Now I really need some help on this choice:
 
#1 = Sennheiser HD600 or HD650 paired with a DAC/AMP combo like a schiit Fulla 2 or similar
 
#2 = AKG K550 - With no DAC/AMP?
 
I know these are vastly different and I guess I will have to attempt to try them both out if possible... I have never tried open back, but having read that they are superior audio quality in general to closed back I wanted to spend a little more go for open.
 
Having then found out they are high impedance and require a relatively powerful DAC/AMP to be appreciated - I'm wondering, will they still be impressive with a Schiit Fulla 2 or £150 odd FiiO DAC/AMP combo.
 
Or would they only really be impressive when using more like a £3-400 DAC/AMP.
 
The AKG K550 I am basing on good reviews I have read everywhere and the fact they won awards on Whathifi (which I trust rightly or wrongly!)
 
My personal GUT feeling is, the AKG K550 have good reviews but because they don't require any amplifier I feel as though I'm not really branching out into true audiophile territory - and that without AMP and DAC I wont really be blown away by "another level" of music.
 
Final note - I play piano and will be plugging these into a silent grand piano - when playing at home ... on low volume the open back shouldn't be too loud for other people?